How To Legally Protect Yourself During Self-Defense

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and I apologize if I sound awful. I am recovering from too much whiskey. I had a fun weekend. I went to Norfolk, Virginia, one of the biggest military areas in the U. S., and I was catching up with some buddies who had been deployed for nine months. You can catch those episodes. We did record a little bit, but all the partying, all the, uh, sailor drinking, not what I'm used to did take a toll on me and I ended up catching a bad fever. So I'm still recovering, but ladies and gentlemen here with me today, Mr. Robertson, go ahead and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself. Hello folks. Uh, my name is Skylar Robertson. I spent 28 years in the military as an infantryman and a medic that was both active duty and National Guard. I was a police officer in Colorado for a number of years, and I currently am semi retired working as an accountant, and I also write for Concealed Carry magazine and work as an expert witness for attorneys in use of force cases. Wow, that's a, that's a lot of skills there. A lot of different things. So let's start at the very beginning, which is why did you join the service? Well, when I first joined was in the eighties. So I've been around a while and it was just a patriotic thing to do. Ronald Reagan was president. And the threat of going to war with the Soviet Union was very real, and I wanted to make sure that the country was taken care of. And I was one of those guys that, I started going to recruiting offices when I was a sophomore in high school. So, yeah, I knew from a very early age, I had a lot of family that had been in the military. And it was kind of one of those things that, if you're a man, at the time it was expected that you'd go into the service of some kind. Right. And was the army your first choice, or did you take a look at a couple of different recruiting stations? How, how did that all play out? My dad had been a Marine and after listening with him, I was really considering it, except what really turned me off was one incident I saw at the recruiting station  where the gunnery sergeant in charge of that office had a staff sergeant locked up at parade rest and was chewing them out. And the gunnery sergeant pulled the drawers out of the guy's desk and dumped them on the floor and swept everything on top of the desk onto the floor. And I thought, you know what, if he's doing this in a public place where people can see it,  what goes on behind closed doors? Right, I totally understand that. We, something I've heard that they're, they're trying to preach in the military. Obviously, it doesn't always happen, but they say, quote, you want to praise in public and discipline in private, you know, that way, because we had people, you know, make those big scenes and it's like, You know, just take them behind closed doors, you know, tell them what you got to tell them and make improvement. But I think it really is bad for morale to have those, those outbursts. I think it reflects badly on you as a leader, and I think it really, you know, hinders that, that morale. So, I understand that.  Yeah, and I understand like, you know, when I was a squad leader, if I needed to correct one soldier, If it was something that,  if it was a mistake I didn't want other people to make, I'd do it loud enough that everybody else would learn from this guy's lesson.  You know, especially if it's in a tactical environment, but if it's something little that I can just pull someone offline and go, Hey man, you kind of screwed up on this one, you know, here's how you can improve. Oh, okay. You know, that's much  to me. That's a better way of dealing with it. And of course, this is also at a time when hazing was a lot more common in the military. Right. We've definitely, when I joined, they had a lot of programs in place and my programs, I mean, you know, you would join and they would do presentations on  hazing as in what defines and classifies as hazing, what isn't hazing, when you should report it. And I know there's, um,  you know, there's just a lot of small stuff that I've heard about. Like I remember my one petty officer, I mean, first day on the submarine, someone, you know, hooked their finger into his mouth. And it's called like a fish hook and just pulled him around by the cheek, you know, stuff like that. And then there's other stuff that's not as bad. Did you ever experience hazing while you were in the service?  A little bit. Um,  one thing that was banned there that's banned now that was a source of pride for everybody at the time was getting blood wings. So after jump school, they would take your,  uh, Airborne qualification badge and pin it in place on your uniform, but not put the backs on it.  And then open palm slam the pins into your chest  and it doesn't really hurt, but it's kind of a cool thing because it's stuck in the skin,  right? They they do that.  They won't let you do that.  No, I know. I remember my buddy. He just got promoted and he wanted them to do that. You know, I don't remember what we called it here. We had a different term for it in the Navy. But yeah, pinning it right to your chest, uh, he wanted it, you know, he wanted to feel, you know, extra manly, extra military, um, I don't think that's something too bad. I know one thing I've heard about on the submarines was, these electricians would get a bolt or some small metal object and attach it. You know, to a mega, which is used to measure resistance by sending a little current through it and they would dangle it down like a fishing line and mechanics would be walking through and be like, Oh, what's this? And they would grab it and they would shock them, you know, which could be potentially dangerous, but it is kind of hilarious, you know? Yeah, it's funny. I mean, yeah. And like we did, like when I got to Fort Bragg. I was now it's Fort Liberty. That's completely ridiculous  in North Carolina, in North Carolina. They renamed it. They renamed it. Yeah. It's now Liberty. Wow. I didn't know that. Cause I had a army soldier on a couple of episodes ago and he referred it, referred to it as Fort Bragg. I didn't know they had changed the name of it. That's interesting. Yeah, it'll yeah. It's to me, I'll always call it Fort Bragg cause that's of course. Um, but we used to like. Before you made a jump with the division, you were a cherry. You had no respect, you know, like nobody cared. Like, yeah, you had five jumps in jump school, who cares, but you're a cherry. You're the lowest of the low, so we're going to mess with you. And they do the typical things like send you for a box of grid squares. Or the keys to the drop zone, you know, your typical little, you know, like give you a trash bag and  tell you to go collect an exhaust sample from a vehicle, you know, little things like that, you know, it's, it's funny. It's harmless. We also, they did cherry parties in the barracks where like, they tell you, you have to match your. And this was usually like junior NCOs or special, you know, E4 specialists, senior enlisted, senior lower enlisted guys. It's like, you have to match them shot for shot. Well, what they don't tell you is they're drinking shots of water and you're drinking shots of vodka.  Nice.  Yeah. You know, and things like push a penny up and down the hallway with your nose while you're half lit. Right. Stuff like that is.  That's kind of benign. No one really cares. We did have one incident where they took a couple of guys up to the roof and, uh, took a length of five 50 cord, tied it around a cinder block and made guys, uh, pull their pants down and tie the other end around their junk and then throw the cinder block off the trick. The joke. Yeah. The joke about it though, is that the cord is long enough that the cinder block's going to hit the ground. Wow, I would hope so. You know, it's not gonna, yeah, but they did it to one guy and he jumped off the roof. Broke both his legs. So, yeah, that was kind of pushing it too far. Not the best one. I remember I had a chief one time, he had his own parking spot in the parking lot. It was right underneath a tree. He was like, go out there and, and, you know, sweep the leaves out of my spot. But it was windy out and the leaves kept falling down every time I would, uh, You know, brushed him out of the way and be like, you can't lead to that spots clean. And I, it was just so annoying. We saw, this was definitely, you know, one of the biggest things you'll hear is that. Chiefs or higher ups will tell boats and mates to go out and, you know, mop the water off of the deck during a rainstorm. And I always thought that was just a joke, but what, during one of my last days on my ship, we had this, I mean, it started flooding. It was a bad, bad rain. And I just see this guy outside with a mop, you know, mopping the same spot in this rain puddle outside on the edge of the ship. I was like, huh. I guess, I guess the old saying is true.  Yeah. Um, from what I've heard from guys who have been in for a while, there's a lot more hazing on the submarine, you know, they said the, but they said, you know, it's also, cause they're bonded a lot closer cause it's a smaller crew and, and you spend a lot more time together. Um, especially if you're going up north towards the Arctic, uh, but yeah, I mean, depending on what kind of sub you're on and  yeah, it's like you might be months with the same group of guys,  right? It's like, yeah, you've got to develop trust. Oh, yeah. One of the things I don't like, which would aggravate me is my buddy told me a story recently about people like this group of ETS would grab an electrician. And pin him down and then rip his boots off and then run away with them. That would annoy me. That would piss me off. Like, come on, man. Yeah. Walking around with no boots.  But yeah, we've actually,  there's been a lot of issues on the ships recently with people stealing other people's boots. And, you know, it's just so aggravating to me that you can't just leave your boots out next to your rack and just put them on. You got to lock them away. I mean, it's, it's just crazy. Yeah. I've heard of people. I was talking to one sailor who was on a submarine. He said, somebody got  this novelty,  this thing, it's about the size of a quarter  and it's got a very small battery in it. And every five to 15 minutes, somewhere at a random time, it makes a cricket chirping noise.  And he goes, yeah, you hide that in somebody  near somebody's sleeping area or where somebody works and they just hear this cricket and it's like, where the hell is that coming from? Something like that's just harmless and funny. That's funny. The one Submariner that um, was training me, he had bought from Amazon, not a sponsor, but from Amazon, he got a box of maybe, like, a couple hundred little rubber ducks. And they started just placing them, like, one a day, somewhere in the submarine, and it, it, At the edge of people's racks and it just spread out. There was this, you know, rubber duck infestation in a submarine. And he said it was really fun. Everyone got along and started, you know, doing it until someone put some, you know, a rubber duck somewhere where it couldn't be. And it broke something. And then, you know, then people are mad. Then the higher ups are mad. Yeah, but there's stuff like that. I remember my buddy, the Roman, he, uh, He was telling me about this chief who had cut out little paper ghosts and hid them all around the reactor plant, just stuff like that. And there was, um,  on the submarine I was on, apparently,  Way down, like, you had to really be trying to find somewhere to, to just BS during, uh, cleaning stations or really doing some kind of maintenance. They had sketched all artwork onto the wall and it was a, they had sketched a joke about a chief, making fun of a chief. And I remember when the higher ups found it, man, they weren't happy. And we did the same thing with the little, you know, the little plastic green army guys, the little soldier toys. We had been placing those all around the submarine and everything. So just, just stuff like that.  The only time I imagine on a slope, you get bored pretty easily. Oh yeah, oh yeah. I remember someone had made, um, from the TV cartoon series, Ed, Ed, Ed and Eddie, they drew a face on a wooden plank in the show and named it Plank. Well, someone, one of the new recruits on the submarine had done that. They drew a face on the wooden board and hid it in the ship and we were swapping back and forth between days and nights.  And I remember we came in and relieved them, and our senior chief found the plank, and he blamed it on us, and he had us all muster outside, and he was screaming at us, he was so mad, he was like, this isn't a place to reminisce about childhood cartoons, you have a job to do, you're putting crap in my submarine, and he tore us out, and it wasn't, we weren't even the ones who put it there, it was the crew we were relieved,  and um, and he was like, I better not find anything else like this, And then this one, one of the newer guys went and drew a face on a rock and put it in his office when he wasn't there. I was like, oh man, just looking to get us in trouble, man. Yeah, yeah, I almost joined the Navy. And because I hadn't, I've been mostly going army and Marines and one of the Navy recruiters goes, Hey man, come here a sec. He's like, I've seen you talking with army and Marines, but you've never come in here. Why don't you give me a shot? I said, okay. And he goes, um, what kind of bonus is the army offered? And I said, well, they've offered me a 5, 000 bonus, which at the time was the highest bonus you could get in the army.  This is a long time ago. And he says, Oh, I can beat that easily. I can get you a 50, 000 cash bonus. Wow. Okay. What have I got? Yeah. Which if you're in high school and you've, you know, my first job working at a yogurt shop, I was making three 10 an hour. So a 50, 000 cash bonus. I'm like, what do I got to do to earn it? He says, it's easy. All you got to do is enlist for six years, volunteer for submarine duty and pass the nuclear reactor course.  Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, And I knew from talking with the Army recruiter, like, if you go for a, your MOS, if you don't make it, then you're whatever the Army says you are, you know, you're going to be assigned to the needs of the Army, which could mean you're now a food service specialist, you know, if you enlist, if you go, Hey, I want to be a dental technician. Oh, you didn't pass the school. So now you're peeling potatoes. And it's like, okay, what's the  pass rate on this school? And he tells me it's like, it's got like a 97 percent fail rate. And there are some classes that they don't, they have no graduates at all. It's like a 13, 14 month course.  And I'm like,  yeah. So if I don't pass, I'm still in the Navy for six years, unrated on a summary.  Wow. That's going to suck. Yeah. I'm like, nah, I don't think so.  Yeah, I definitely know about that because,  I mean, I met,  actually this weekend, this past weekend in Norfolk, at the bar, I met a Navy SEAL who had made it all the way to the last week, got injured, some kind of leg injury, instantly demoted all the way down to Boatswain's Mate. Um, and, and, and he's trying to get out, he's not happy, and I had met another guy, also, Navy SEAL, got injured, recovered, tried again, got re injured, and also a boatswain's mate, and even, I mean, all the way down to the, the most basic rate. Now, I have met some nukes, who couldn't pass the nuclear program, and they actually were given a, a slight choice. There was options billets available for them. So sometimes they'll get lucky, but yeah, don't ever believe that. And one of the things I like to tell people is a lot of times the recruiters will say, Hey, Just join, just pick a rate and then you can always transition over. That's not true at all. Like if you go to school for your job, they're going to keep you, especially if they need you. You can't just be like, you know what? It's been two years. I really don't like this. I want to do a different job in the Navy. No,  I mean, unless it's re enlistment time and you want to go into something to have a critical shortage in the army, we would do that. Like if you were a grunt and you go, Hey, look, I did four years. I want to re enlist, but I don't want to be infantry anymore. I want to be a combat medic. Okay. Or I want to be a tanker or, you know, it's like, and they go through and they go, well, we're, we're, we are pretty short. So, but if you wanted to go, you know, like be an illustrator or something, it's like, yeah, right now when you join the army, what, what were you going for? What was your dream job?  Uh, infantry. I wanted to be airborne infantry and ultimately I wanted to try for special forces. Uh, never ended up doing that, but yeah, I did time at Fort Bragg and then at Fort Lewis and then got married. That was kind of what led me to go to get off active duty  and not go SF was,  I'm getting married. I'm going to have a couple of step kids. Can I, do I really want to get married? Then immediately be gone for a year and a half training. No. No you don't. Yeah. So before you got married, how many years Were you active duty in the army before you got married? I was active for four. Okay. And then I did  a lot of years, but then I did what five, six years in the guard, took a  break in service and then went back in and that's when. I deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, and that was medical. Uh, first you did, you said you were a combat medic. When I first, yeah. When I first went back in, I was assigned as a 68 whiskey, and then I got promoted into an infantry slot. They said, you can either stay a medic and stay as an E five, or we can promote you into an infantry slot as an E six. I'm like, eh, I'll do that. Yeah,  promotion's always a, a good incentive, but.  For those four years that you were active duty in the army before you got married, uh, what was that like? It was different. I mean, I definitely liked Fort Lewis better than Fort Bragg because there's just, you know, the surrounding area around Fayetteville,  the only industry there is the military because there's, you know, Bragg, Pope Air Force Base. Right. And your quintessential GI town. Fort Lewis, there's Seattle right there. Like you could be off post and. People would be surprised when you told them you were in the military. Yeah, because the, the army soldier that we had podcasted with, he said in, when he went to the bars and in Fort Bragg, the women would just ask you, what rank are you, what, what rate are you? And if you weren't an officer or a chief, they would be like, get out of here. Yep. Same thing with the Norfolk area. Yeah. Well, unless of course, you know, their husband is deployed, then it's whatever.  Yeah,  that's, that's, that's for sure. That happens a lot. There was one bar at Fort Bragg that was, and it wasn't even during deployments because we'd go out to the field for six, eight weeks at a time. And, you know, there's no cell, there were no cell phones at that time. And it was very common for women to go, okay, you know, my husband's going to be gone for two months. So I'll just pick up a boyfriend for a while. And there was one bar that was known for that's where you go to pick up or to get picked up by someone's wife. Who's in the field.  Like this, the sergeant's wife bar. That's pretty funny. Yeah. Or officers. Yeah, it was, yeah, it was mainly officers wise. And a lot of enlisted guys, like, wouldn't, wouldn't dream of seeing a woman whose husband was enlisted, but if it's an officer, it's fair game. That's actually really funny that you guys have that mentality. I know my, one of my coworkers now in the civilian world, he was in the army, uh, or he, sorry, he was in the Navy and he was in San Diego. And he had met this woman at the bar and he started, you know, seeing her. And after maybe three, four times, he saw a picture in the house. It was his chief, the one in the chief in charge of him. He's like, this is chief's house. He saw a picture. He was like, Oh, hell no. And I was like, man, so you got out of there. And he was like, well, I hit it  two more times. He was like, yeah, I hit it about two more times. But then I was like, I can't do this anymore. Like his chief, I could. That's crazy. Yeah. Back in the day,  you know, what's now called the FRG, the family, this writing family readiness group back in the day was called the Wives Support Group.  Their main function was to tell the wives, hey, look, your husband's going to be home from the field on this day. Get your boyfriend out of the house. And there was one time though, where a unit, yeah, a unit, uh, finished early and they came home like two or three days. Early and nobody notified the FRG or the wives group. So the word didn't get out in this one guy, you know, it's like, and their unit was like, Hey, you know what, turn your weapons in. We'll clean them tomorrow and just give them a good wipe down  and go home,  be back tomorrow morning. So this guy's like, I'm going to surprise my wife, picked up some flowers,  goes home, finds his wife in the act with another dude. And he just reached into the nightstand, pulled out a pistol and shot both of them. Yeah, the military's like, well, this happened off post, so it's not a military issue.  So he got put in jail and tried by the civilian cops. Well, his lawyer found a law from the 1700s  that said if a man catches his wife with another man and he kills both of them, that's proof that he was so overwrought that he was not  In control of his actions,  but if he only kills one of them, that, that shows that he was in control.  And they're like, you gotta be kidding me.  Like this law had, there's no way. There's no way. Yeah. That's incredible. And yeah. But yeah. And, but they're like, oh shit. And they had to drop the charges. Um, of course right after that, the legislature pull that loft books.  Right. But eh,  things happen. Yeah. I mean, I've heard a lot of stories about it and, you know, it's awful because the military has this really negative stigma around it, this bad reputation that. You know, soldiers and army guys and Navy sailors all cheat, but it's the, the, the, uh, dependents more, more than anyone from, from all the stories I've heard is actually the wives more than anyone, but a lot of these wives, at least nowadays, you know, they, is they married for BAH, they married for money. Oh, yeah. Oh, it's not just nowadays. They were doing that back in the day.  Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, they, in the 80s, 90s. Yeah. It's like, it's like, Ooh, you can get me BAH and TRICARE. Hey, we get married. I can get you out of the barracks. Yeah. I'm sure in the Navy you had stories about, you know, some E2  that marries a stripper and he's got a new Camaro with a 28 percent interest rate.  Oh yeah. That's actually pretty funny. You know, we had a, what we call a smoke pit weddings. Uh, because, you know, these people would get stationed on base at nuke school and they would both meet each other at the smoke pit and they're like, Hey, you want to get married? And that, that would be it. So we called them smoke pit weddings. A lot of them. It's very interesting, you know, because it's been a couple of years since I joined in a lot of the people who got married during a nuke school that I knew they're all getting divorces right now. My buddy. He's not my buddy. Actually, this guy that I actually really hate, I only hate a few people. And this guy screwed me over and we can go over it. He was my class leader. And basically he knew that I liked this, uh, this woman, this female sailor in our class. Well, he had been with her a little bit in bootcamp and he knew that she had cheated on her civilian boyfriend with him. And then she was talking to other guys and he knew I liked her. And I talked to him about it, and he didn't say, Hey, by the way, she's a chronic cheater. Uh, he just let me, Uh, get involved with her, and cheated on multiple times. And he was like, well, it wasn't my place to intervene. I was like, okay, you didn't have to tell me not to see her, but you could have told me, by the way, she's a chronic cheater. I know because she cheated  with me and, and kind of on me. And I was like,  so I always hated that guy. He was my class leader and he was supposed to be a friend, but you know, obviously not. Yeah. What I hated was, you know, when I became a squad leader, like going on a deployment,  Having to tell all the enlisted guys, it's like, look,  you're married.  Don't sign a general power of attorney  because you're going to come back. And you know, for the listeners out there, a general power of attorney gives another person the right to do anything under your name. It's like they are acting for you legally. You can get a specific one. Like if you're. Yeah. If you're selling a house and it's like, I want my wife to be able to sign  paperwork for selling the house. Cool. But don't do a general one. Yeah. Get, get one for medical. Like if you're put in a coma. Yeah. Something like that. And we'd always have dudes that would, you know, it's like when you're an E3, E4, but you're on deployment and you're making  BAH and you got, you're making this money tax free and you're stocking it away going, this is going to be awesome. Yeah.  And then you get home and your bank account's empty. Like we had one dude, we got off the buses after coming back and doing our DMOB stuff. You know, and people's spouses are there, you know, it's the whole thing with the flowers and the flags and balloons and whatnot, and people holding up signs. Yeah. Yeah. Big reunion. And the student's looking for his wife and can't find her. And this guy walks up to him and goes, are you so and so? And he's like, yeah, it's like here. And he hands him an envelope and he goes, you've just been served. And it was divorce papers. Wow. And he, yeah, he checks. So the wife sold their house.  Um, kept the money, emptied the bank account, and married this other dude, but she used the power of attorney to make her soon to be ex legally responsible to make the payments on her boyfriend's new truck, and the army made him pay it. That is so messed up. You were dumb enough to sign it. Yeah. Yeah, I would fight that. But it happens all the time.  Oh yeah, and this, um, the reason I brought up my, my former class leader is because  We were just about to graduate the second part of nuke school, so we had been in for almost over a year now, uh, cause we had the longest course available, the way it's, uh, our classes ended up getting set up, so, and this chick shows up on base, you know, she, she just got there, she just got out of boot camp, and he starts talking to her, two months later, they get married, I mean, she just joined the military. He's been in for about over a year and like, he finds her in her, like, in, you know, she was getting a presentation on welcome the base and he finds her and he's like, let me show you around next thing. You know, they get married two months later. Well, she just showed up on my. Buddy, um,  on the same ship as him. And he overheard her talking to this, this female officer about how to get divorced and how to divorce, you know, your husband and mill on mill divorce. So we think, we think we warned him. We told him two months was a little too soon. We were glad he was in love, but he should wait. But you know what? He screwed me over and I think this is karma. So I think this is God's divine justice coming back around. Yeah,  one of the saddest stories talking about getting home from deployment and everything's gone. On my buddy's ship, there's this officer and she's a very nice person. And while she was deployed, she let a group of homeless people live in her house. She said, well, you can stay in my place because I'm not going to be there because I'm deployed. Well, she got back. They had stolen everything, and one of the, uh, older ladies in the homeless group. Uh, died and they left her in there  and she had passed away from medical ailments or whatever. So she gets home, everything's stolen. There's this dead woman in the house. I mean, this is absolutely insane. Oh God. I was like, that was so nice of you to offer them a place to stay, but that was stupid. I mean, that was just straight up  stupid to do that.  But that was probably somebody that had never been out in the real world before, and just thought that everybody was nice.  They said she was And had never had anything bad happen to her. Yeah, they said she was blindly kind, gullibly kind, so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,  if I had to pay for my ex wife's new boyfriend's truck, man, I, you could not, just the idea of that gets me so angry. I can't believe, yeah, don't sign. Don't give away your rights as a human being to someone else. That's crazy. And yeah, we had one captain. She like on deployment and she was like supermodel beautiful. She gets pregnant. Yeah. And the guy that got her pregnant was this goofy ginger haired specialist that was like into Pokemon and stuff. And I'm like, how the hell did you swing that? I mean, cause under deployment, any girl's got her pick of guys, and she picked like, did your Pokemon deck impress her or something? Like, yeah, he had a nice set of Pokemon, like an ultra rare. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And of course, when we got back, you know, she should have been about seven, eight months pregnant. She was clearly not pregnant.  Because of course, you know, she got pregnant and they sent her back home  and when we got back to The states, you know, she's there with her husband and it's like Yeah, okay. Yeah, she, she just took care of that quietly. It didn't say. Oh, she, oh, she had cheated on her husband and got sent back. Yeah, she, yeah, she cheated on her husband, ended up getting pregnant. And wow. Yeah, there were a couple of. Like when I was in Iraq, when I was in Baghdad, there were a couple of female MPs that got busted for prostitution because when they were trying to get back to the States, they had garbage bags full of cash with them. Really? So when they were in these foreign countries, they sold their Oh yeah, because GIs will pay for it. And I had a couple of terps. I had one, uh, Iraqi interpreter. She was absolutely gorgeous. She was like 19 and just completely beautiful. She wasn't turning tricks. She was trying to get a GI to fall in love with her.  So she could get a visa and go to the land of the big PX. But I had one, uh, yeah, she wasn't successful as far as I know. Yeah, she was the one I got in trouble for because, yeah, she's in the DFAC wearing a bikini top and some Daisy Dukes and flip flops. Yeah.  Talk about a morale booster. Oh, yeah. And some certain major, like, chewed me out because,  it's like,  it's like, dude, I, I Don't have any say over what she wears. Yeah. You know, she's a civilian contractor. You know, all I do, all I do is her schedule and make sure she's at work on time. That's it. She just showed up barely dressed, trying to get a, an American husband. That's funny. Oh yeah. Oh, and she, well, American or British. When the British were running this one, uh, hotel, uh, It was Alpha Palace, they had a swimming pool there and like, she would go out topless and just hang out at the pool. Yeah. You can, you can do that in other countries. But I had one interpreter, she was in her forties. She was turning tricks. She was charging 600 a pop. Wow. It was like, who in the hell's got 600?  But there were plenty of senior enlisted and officers, extra money. Yeah. I mean, wow. That was, that was crazy. Yeah, that was a fun deployment for me. Um, 'cause I had this one core group because I was the linguist manager. Oh, okay. So we were running like a bunch of the ECPs, the entry control points to the base, and we had to have linguists there because that was just a requirement. So, but one of the gates was military only, and it's like, yeah, the TURPs don't need, they just sat, they had their own room with some cots set up and they just come in and take a nap and go to sleep. Um, a bunch of the ones that worked there had other jobs in town and they'd  go to work for me and go to sleep and then get up and go to their other job. But the other gate was where the day workers would come in. You know, the guys that are cleaning the latrines  out and emptying the trash and that kind of stuff. Oh, yeah. So, we really needed the Terps there, and I had this one group of four guys, they were college students in Baghdad, and they acted just like frat boys in the States. That's funny. Like,  yeah, it's like, you know, there's, if you've never been out with local populations, you know, you think that, oh, these people are so different. No, they're not. It's like, everybody's the same everywhere in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Iraq,  Afghanistan, Africa.  Oh yeah. We, we, we actually talked about this,  uh, with my, on, on the last two episodes on the show, and my buddies who came back from the deployment, they said that the, when they went to these other countries, they said it was so westernized. The malls are set up the same. The people. Mm-Hmm. were just like the saying. They said it's not as big of a culture shock as you think. Even the Middle East, huh? Yeah. When. Like in Mazar e Sharif, I, when I was working as a contractor, I did 17 months up there, absolutely loved it, but we used to listen to local radio station, and so you hear some of the kind of music, and then you'd hear Beyonce, and I was traveling one time because I had to pick up some cash. in, uh, Kabul. So I flew civilian from Mazar e Sharif to Kabul, went and picked up cash, and then flew back. And when I was at the airport, I was talking to this kid, he's like in his twenties, and he's wearing cowboy boots, blue jeans, and a leather jacket. Wow. And when he saw me, yeah, he comes up and starts a conversation. He's like, you're American. Yeah. And you know, it, you know, I'm a six foot four white dude. In  the Middle East. Yeah, I kind of, I kind of stand out, you know, I wasn't even making an attempt to hide it. I mean, there was another dude at the airport wearing a full she mug, you know, the scarf around his face with some sunglasses trying to hide. It's like, dude,  everybody knows you're an American. Yeah, you know, just accept it.  But this kid started talking to me and he was a senior at bulk university, which bulk university is a huge engineering school and like people from India. Would send their kids to Balk University to study engineering. It's a really good school. Well, anyway, he was said was saying Yeah, i'm about six months away from graduating Um, but me and my friends are taking a few months off because we started a rock band And we want to see if we can make it as musicians. He goes, we've been playing and practicing really hard. It goes, we've got some gigs lined up in town, so we're going to see if we can give it a go. It's like, Oh, cool. What kind of music do you like? He was like, well, we're heavily influenced by Led Zeppelin and the doors. Oh, wow. I was like, yeah, I'm like, Oh my God, dude, that's amazing. No way. Yeah, and you know, I never heard what happened to him, but hopefully he made it. So he just came up to you said you're American. Let me tell you about my band idea. And that was it. Yeah. Yeah. He is. Yeah. You're waiting in the airport. And yeah, I got 50 grand in cash.  Yeah. I got 50 grand in cash in my pocket. That was kind of scary. Like sitting out in a car in downtown Kabul, counting out a bag of money. Yeah. I mean, you only This is Wow. Yeah. It's like, this is surreal. But you didn't need 50 grand. You only needed 600 to get some. Yeah. True. Well, this was the monthly budget for a couple of our sites. Okay. Because everything Everything we bought, we paid in cash and local workers, we paid in cash. Very, very interesting. So what were you, what were you doing over there? You were just doing surveillance or you were doing like training? The company I worked for, they had one contract that was running one of the gates and so they had mostly local national security guards out there. Um, and it was run by South African cause this was a South African company I was working for. Oh, this is after the active duty. This wasn't a deployment. This was when you were doing the contracting work. Yeah, this was contract. Makes sense. So the contract, yeah, the one I was on, we were protecting the mechanics and flight instructors that were teaching the Afghan commandos how to fly and maintain their aircraft. Oh, okay. And, but at the time. Like in Masri Sharif, Western women could walk down the street in the middle of the day or the middle of the night and be perfectly safe. Okay. Interesting. So did you speak the local language at all? I speak very little Pashto or Dari. Yeah. Like beyond saying hello, that's about it. But I had one guy cause I had to go to this one store where we bought all our supplies. I was buying like printer ink or something.  You know, when you walk into a room and the conversation suddenly stops every time I walk into a room. I'm a pretty important guy. No, but I know what you mean. I know exactly what you mean. Yeah, because I go into this guy's shop and there's like half a dozen  Afghani merchants. They're watching TV and they're watching a cricket game. The shop owner goes and gets my stuff and I just stand there. I feel like these people are suddenly very uncomfortable that I'm there. But I'm watching the game, so the shop owner went and got whatever I was picking up, garbage bags or whatever, and  I was watching the video or the cricket match with these other guys, and he comes back and he's like, Oh, you like cricket? I said, well, never really watched it before and he explains to me that this was Mazari Sharif playing India in the World Cup. It was game five of a five game series. And so I just stood there. I'm like, oh cool. And I can kind of tell these other guys are kind of not really comfortable with me there. He's like, you want a beer? I'm like, sure. And he hands me a beer. I crack it open. And as soon as I cracked open my beer, these other guys brought out their beers that they'd been drinking. Cause they didn't want to be seen drinking beer with, you know, it's like, this is a Muslim country,  but if I'm drinking a beer, then they can drink a beer. So wow, all started. Yeah, and so we're I spent the afternoon fucking off just drinking beer with these guys watching the cricket match and this one old afghani dude, it was very important to him that he explained the nuances of cricket to me. Only thing is he didn't speak English and I don't speak dark money. Yeah. And so he's telling me all this stuff and my buddy's guy and I got to translate. But yeah, I sat and watched the whole game. Uh, I never went back to work that day. It's like, eh, whatever,  but yeah, we won. It's like Mazari Sharif won them. Won the World Cup. Oh, so this older guy isn't speaking English and he's just trying to explain the whole game to you?  Yeah. That's actually so funny. I think that's,  I think that's hilarious. So, I don't understand. Yeah, I don't.  It was, they didn't, is beer like a kind of looked down on thing in the Middle East as a beverage or? Any alcohol. If you're in a Muslim country, it's like, it could be seen as disgraceful, you know, because Okay,  to strict district adherence of Islam, you're not supposed to drink at all. That's interesting. And they didn't want me, yeah, they didn't want me to look down on them for them drinking, but if I am having a drink, then it's all good. But like this one, uh, Afghan commander that we worked with, he was the, their detachment commander.  Like  he'd have a bottle in his office and he said, the Quran says, don't let the first drop of alcohol.  So he'd pour a drink and then stick his finger in the drink and flick, flick a drop onto the floor. And it's like,  that was the first drop. And then have his drink. Wow. That's, that's really interesting. Yeah. And the frat boy Terps that I had, one of them got their visa to come to the States. So we had a little party for him on base, you know, just a little barbecue and whatnot. And they were like, Hey, can we, can you fix the schedule so that we have a couple days off together? Cause we want to have a party at our, cause they shared an apartment off base. I'm like, yeah, sure. And I worked it out. And when they came back to work, they were hung over as can be like barely functioning. And they were like, yeah, Oh God, we were so lit. And I'm like, I didn't think there was,  you know, booze allowed here. Cause like, we're not allowed to drink here. Because they said, well, this is a Muslim country and there's no alcohol. They go, Oh no, there's liquor stores all over Baghdad.  You just have to know the rules. You go in, you don't make eye contact with anybody. You get what you want and then you pay for it and leave. Yeah. It's kind of like going to a liquor store in Salt Lake City. You know, don't recognize anybody else that's there. They said one of them back to the liquor store because they decided they needed to get a hooker. And  they said, there's a bulletin board in the liquor store where the hookers would post their pictures and their phone numbers so you could call them up. So he's just there dialing different hookers, trying to see who could meet them. And there was only one that would agree to meet all four of them. And she was a midget.  Oh man, this is a story. Yeah. She, she  shows up, gets in his car. He said he was, yeah, he's driving like a Volkswagen Beetle. Yeah.  And he's driving back to the apartment and he gets stopped at a checkpoint  and the Iraqi police Make him pull over Oh, man They call him out of the car and it's like oh god I am drunk and i've got a hooker and booze in the car. I am so dead. I am going to prison for sure Wow  The thing is the cops recognized her and they just pulled him out of the car to laugh at him like Yeah Yeah, and  then So she went and partied with them and  and of course the funny thing too is they had photos on their phones And they're showing me the pictures of her.  But yeah, was she fine these guys? They're just  for a midget  Um, but yeah, these guys they're just like frat boys in the u. s  It's like, there's no difference.  Wow. That's  that's crazy. So when you were contracting, this is when you were married, correct?  Yeah. Okay. So you didn't get to do any of the,  is the, you know, any of the middle Eastern, uh, culture exchanging,  but, um, no, none of that. Wow. They just have a bulletin board of pick your hooker, huh? That's crazy. That's so interesting. Years later, when I was contracting, I was up in Erbil, Iraq, and that's up north in the Kurdish area. And yeah, there's, it's a Christian majority up there and there's liquor stores all over town. And of course the state department people, they'd have a bottle of booze on their desk and be drinking in the middle of the day,  but we couldn't,  yeah, we couldn't drink at all because we had to be, you know, They said 12 hours from Jigger to Trigger, so, and we worked a 12 hour shift, so it's like Okay, yeah, I get that.  Yeah, you can't,  so if they caught us even having one drink, we'd be done. And we had one RSO, the Regional Safety Officer, this is the consulate's version of law enforcement. He made it his job to  rigidly enforce every line on the contract to the point where, um, like if you were on duty, we had to have like our vehicle keys on us.  And if, and he'd go, show me your vehicle keys. If you didn't have it, he'd write it down and you didn't get paid that day. If you didn't have what's called a letter of authorization, which is your, you know, authorizes you to be on project and to get paid. It's like, if you didn't have that on you, you didn't get paid, dude. Yeah. He was a real dick.  No. So it's, it's funny you, you mentioned that because there was one of those guys on my ship, bald head thought he was like, you know, a high ranking Marine, like super strict, like over the top, like guy thinks he's in a dramatic cinematic masterpiece or something. And.  I found out from other sailors on the ship that, um, someone on Facebook had made the MA mean page. So essentially in the Navy, MA, Master at Arms, that's your law enforcement and your security. And someone made a Facebook page to post about,  You know, the, our least favorite ones. And he was like the top ranking one, this guy who happened to be on my ship and give me a hard time and my buddy's a hard time. He happened to be like a number one celebrity on the MA meme page.  But yeah, I mean, you know, one of those stand at attention,  you know, sound off, sound off louder, sound off louder, you know, one of those kinds of guys. Yeah, I totally get that. And we had some that were really nice. We definitely had some, you know, some MAs who were nice. We also had some, we had this, there was this one MA who was, he was short, maybe five, four, maybe five, three. He had a very nasally voice and glasses. And we always made the joke that he had gotten bullied in high school and had no friends. And so he became an MA and now he had the power trip. Cause he was just like, thought he was the coolest guy in the world, but he was, he still had that, you know, like you could kind of push back and bully him because you took him as a joke mentality. But  I get that when you went medical,  uh, when you, you know, went back, were you on the front lines, did you stitch together any cut open stomachs or anything like that, or were you just, you know, in the hospital on standby? How did that work? I, well, most of the time I was, even though I was in the slot, I got reassigned to like, Staff duty. I did work in what's called the cash for a little while. That was kind of fun. And then when I was contracting, you know, if you got a medic background. And you're contracting, that's a lot, can be a lot more money. Yeah. When I first started contracting though,  like if you just had an EMT certificate, that was all they needed. And then it progressed to, well, we want you to have your EMT advanced. And then it became, we want you to be a paramedic. So I was going for my paramedic cert, uh, when I was contracting, but yeah, it did get, Had some interesting cases when I was doing clinicals here in the States, had one dude who stabbed himself in the neck.  That was pretty fun to deal with. Interesting, okay. Yeah, yeah, I had to, I was able to stop the bleeding and control it until we got to the hospital and passed him off to a trauma surgeon. The other, you know, I knew, cause just using my gloved fingertips, cause he had a beard so I couldn't get any, um, adjuncts in there and there was no way to pack the wound. So I just used direct pressure. The other medic was like  I thought that dude was going to die for sure. But I was like, nah, we had the bleeding stopped. He was good. He was mostly conscious the whole way. Now, when you were, um, Contracting out there in the Middle East, did you ever have to use deadly force to stop a threat to the, the areas you were guarding? Or was it kind of a whole quiet, peaceful journey for you?  Um, it was mostly indirect fire. We did have  at one location I was at. There was a lot of bad guys around, you know, these were everything from gun runners to slavers to dope dealers. And we had guys watching us where we were at. And, you know, like every day for a couple of days, a vehicle breaks down in the same spot. And these guys take four or five hours to change a tire. It's like, yeah, they're watching us. But the people we were working for hold them up on their cell phone and explain to them.  Um, well. They met him at a cafe for coffee and was like, look, we're not here for you. So if you guys leave us alone, we'll leave you alone.  If you don't leave us alone,  you know, it's like, dude, how do you think we were able to get your cell phones to call you? It's like, we know who you are. We know where you live.  If you fuck with us, we're going to kill you. So yeah, they left us alone after that. Right.  Right. As, as one does. So, yeah, that's good. We were, yeah, we were actually, it was kind of good because our anti vehicle weapons got put on a ship instead of a plane. And so, we needed, uh, some heavier weapons, so we were able to buy RPGs and dish goods from them. Interesting, so what exactly were you protecting? This was Uh, a military base, or this was just a base of American operations. We were protecting us government personnel and equipment.  Okay. And an undis in an undisclosed location. And I cannot be more specific than us. That's, that's totally fine. I understand that part. So that, that's definitely interesting. And you did multiple contracts while you were. During that time. Yes. Um, and we deployed all over the world and that was a lot of fun. And what was really fun about that contract was they appreciated that we were there. They treated us like we were rock stars. We had good housing, good food, anything we needed. We just let them know. The state department kind of looked at us like an inconvenience. It's like, we really don't need you here. You know, we, I've even heard state department people say, well, look, the people in this country, they know we're here to help them. Why do we need armed security?  And then 30 minutes later, when they're getting shot at,  right? Like, well, if you guys stopped shooting back at them, maybe they'll stop shooting at us. Dude, it doesn't work that way. No, no, it doesn't. We had one girl, we were getting ready to leave to take these guys to a meeting and one of the State Department guys was late. So everyone's just hanging out at the vehicles waiting for this dude to show up.  And this one statey chick was like, wow, you guys actually sound smart. And I don't think she realized how condescending she was sounding, but she's like, yeah, I'm pretty smart. You're all ex Miller.  You're all ex military, so you've got the G. I. Bill. Have you ever thought about going to college? Because if you got a bachelor's, if you, yeah, if you've got a bachelor's degree, you could get a job with the State Department and be making 80, 000 a year like I am.  And someone clued her in that, well, most of us already have bachelor's degrees, about half of us have master's degrees, and 80, 000 a year would be a hell of a pay cut for us. And she's like, you mean you guys make more money than we do? Yeah,  almost twice. Yeah. She was a lady around that. Yeah. So this was a lady who worked for the state department. This is an American woman or this is an American,  this was an American diplomat working for the state department, but she had spent her whole life going to Ivy league schools and thought she was the greatest thing ever. And  one of these typical liberals that looks down on the military is a bunch of idiots who probably never made it through high school. And she thought she was surprised to find out. It's like,  Yeah, I've got a degree in economics. I've got a degree in creative writing, almost got a third master's degree or a second master's degree in business. I'm like four credits away. It's like, Oh wow, you guys are actually smart people.  Like we're not, you mean actually, wow, that's, that's crazy.  I don't think, I don't think I've ever had too much experience like that. Well, yeah. So it sounds like you did a lot of traveling around throughout your life. What would you say was your favorite place to visit? And what was your worst visit? My favorite place was Mazar e Sharif, just because it's up north in Afghanistan. It's pretty green. It's a lot of mountains, it's really beautiful, the people were outstanding. The worst place was  probably Africa,  because where we were at  was just desolate, it looked terrible, and where we were at, the food was like mediocre gas station food, and the billets were austere. It's like, you know, a Motel 6 would have been a tremendous upgrade. Oh, okay. Wow. So that was, how long were you there for? Um, like three months, but that felt like three years. Yeah. And one thing I hated about that spot was one, it was hot. Like even in, I was there like  December, January timeframe, and it was still 120, 130 degrees out. Wow. Yeah. It's like, this is miserable. The flies are nonstop. And whoever did our scheduling.  Like we'd be at a, we'd have a rotation partner  and so we're on a 12 hour shift, but it would be  three hours on, three hours off, three hours on, three hours off.  And it's like, you know what, let's just do six hours and call it good. You know, cause I'd rather do a straight six and have 18 hours off then. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, but you  know, and you could, depending on who you were partnered with, you could, you know, And some people did split it up like that, but the guy I was with was like, no, I want to do it this way. All right, whatever.  But yeah, the food was terrible. But like even the chief that ran the base still  took turns mopping the BFAC out and taking out the trash  because there just wasn't enough people there.  So it's like,  yeah, this is by definition remote. Oh, the money was phenomenal.  And, but these people also, like they would,  if somebody was in trouble, they'd go to the ends of the earth to help them out. You know, I've been on contracts where they'll just cut you loose. Um, did you ever hear back in 2018  when the U. S. embassy. They closed the consulate in Basra down in southern Iraq, right? And I worked with guys who were on that contract contract at the time and they said what happened it was on a Friday State department said we're closing this consulate. It's too dangerous So they had 24 hours to be out of there So they moved everybody into, all the contractors are on the gates and on the towers pulling security. They pulled all the other personnel into one building,  made sure they had accountability of everyone. The Marines started their sensitive document destruction. You know, a lot of people think that the Marines are at embassies for security. Nah, they got contractors for that. All the Marines do is sit in the control room in post one and watch the monitors. And then if something happens, they destroy sensitive documents. But when they started egressing out of there and they were doing convoys to the motor pool and stuff.  Yeah. All the state department Marines are leaving on the last convoy out, you know, they pull the flag down off the roof and one of the  team leaders for the contractors was like,  He asks the consulate general, the CG, it's like, okay, what's the plan for us now? And he's like,  I don't know,  call your company, I'm sure they got a plan to get you out of there.  And they left.  No, that's not fair. Yeah, he, yeah, it's like he gets on the cell phone, calls the company in the states, and they're like, what do you mean they just left you guys there? They're like, we don't have a plan to get you guys home. Fortunately, there were a ton of armored SUVs there, so they just packed them all up, and Took extra, um, fuel with them and they had the connexes there with the booze and they took a few cases of whiskey to hand out at the police checkpoints and they just drove to Ali al Salam in Kuwait. But yeah, state department was very, had no problem leaving guys behind. Man, the military saying is supposed to be no man left behind. Wow. Yeah.  That only applies to the military, not to politicians. Fair point. Yeah, working with, but working with people who would go to the ends of the earth to get you out of a bad spot. Like that was, that was much better. And I have nothing but respect for those. So you would say you've made a lot of Long lasting friendships during your time in the military and afterward definitely sometimes it's hard to keep in touch But yeah, I've you know, my best friend that I met at Fort Bragg  you know, we've been friends since 86 87 and Yeah, we're still close if he ever needed anything from me.  All he's got to do is give me a call Yeah, it's like you said, I mean, I have some great friends, but the truth is our schedules are so different and busy that we never talk, but, but we know, you know, we understand we had that mutual understanding that we're living our own lives, but you know, if we ever need each other or if we have time off to meet up, we will. Yeah, my friend Tim, like, you know, once or twice a year we'll call and we'll be on the phone for like four or five hours and it hardly seems like any time has passed at all. Oh yeah, that's why, that's why I went back to Norfolk. I mean, cause I hadn't seen these guys in almost a year  and man, it felt, it felt like just yesterday, you know, we had all been in school together and everything. So  that, that was great catching up with them, but it was also rough because, you know, they all had duty day, midnight watch, you know, this and that.  Really difficult to maintain those schedules, but we had a good time catching up.  We went to the gun range, my buddy. He's been buying a lot of guns recently. He got some guns from world war two. So we went out and did some shooting, which brings me to your current.  Uh, work as semi retired is so you are an expert essentially that they call into court whenever there's a use of deadly firearms. Like, how does that work? What exactly is your position and what role do you play in those cases? Well, I'm, um, I get called in as an expert witness. Which the legal definition, the technical definition is somebody who has knowledge of the subject beyond the ken of the layperson. So I have more knowledge than the average person on the street. And what I do, I'll get called by a defense lawyer, Or could be a prosecutor, but typically it's a defense lawyer who wants me to explain to the jury that what the defendant did was legal self defense. And sometimes that's just a matter of explaining that, look, the attacker had a knife, so the defendant pulling a gun  was justified because he was faced with the threat of death or serious bodily injury.  But some prosecutors will try to say, Oh, come on. It was just a knife and you had to pull a gun, right?  It's really aggravating. Yeah. In the world of self defense, it's like once lethal forces reached, there are no subcategories. It's not like, well, if he has a knife, you have to pull a knife. Right. And that's what really frustrates me with a lot of the core systems and America nowadays is a lot of times.  You're in the wrong, even if a person breaks into your house and tries to kill you and you defend yourself, and even if you don't kill them, even if you just injure them, you're in the wrong. And it's, I think it's absolutely insane that you are, you know, penalized and possibly having your whole life changed in a negative manner for defending yourself. You know, it is your right as a human being to preserve your life. Yeah. And what I'm seeing now is like people are spending on average two to two and a half years in jail before they get to a trial.  Wow. Because That's wrong. Yeah. Yeah. COVID slammed the court schedules and, you know, I had one guy, like, he's in his 70s and he'd been in jail two years. And his lawyer is telling the judge  he never waived his right to a speedy trial, which under state statute means you have to start the trial within a year. And the judge is like, eh, COVID, we're not, we're just not going to follow that law. Wow. I know that also aggravates me as someone who believes COVID is exaggerated, is a politically backed, you know, product and, and that there's a lot of false information about it. The fact that people will use it as an excuse for everything. It's not just courts. I mean,  I used to be an ice cream salesman, and when I went on vacation earlier, or maybe it was last year, I saw my old boss, the ice cream man, and he told me that he was paying double what he used to pay for dry ice, all because, quote, COVID. Well, COVID didn't impact anything with dry ice, you know, he said it's just people can make the excuse, oh, the economy's bad, or this and that, and it's also, A lot of people I meet who are out of shape, you know, they want to say, well, you know, I couldn't go to the gym because of COVID or I was working from home and I sat around a lot COVID, you know, I'm so tired of this, um,  lack of self discipline that is being excused by, you know, in my mind, uh, uh, uh, exaggerated pandemic and, uh, I remember my mom had told me in New Jersey right now it's about a six year wait to get divorced because COVID, cause New Jersey has a lot of people in it, uh, because COVID had backed up the court system so much, but I feel like the courts are using it as an excuse to drag stuff out. Cause the truth is  you can have a lot of court sessions a day and even now. You know, doing stuff online. I mean, they really need to, to do something. Cause like you're saying now people are waiting in jail. I mean,  and what it turns out that they were actually in a right, and now you just took away two years of their life. I mean, it's really, really wrong.  Yeah. This guy, he was in his seventies, his stepson, who's in his forties, who schizophrenic and self medicated with methamphetamine, alcohol, and weed. Like this guy and his wife for years did not tell the son where they were living because he was such a threat.  Right. But  he found out where they were and they like. He was living in a van in their driveway for a little bit and he was in their house because they let him use the bathroom  but he had a court date the next day and he was  Of course, drunk and high and,  I'm gonna go to jail, uh, you know, it's like, you know, if I'm going to jail, I might as well just commit murder, you know, I can kill you guys.  And he made threats that he was going to kill his mom, started beating the crap out of her.  So this 70 year old man grabbed a wife's gun, 25 automatic. And which is like,  maybe suitable for mice or rabbits or something. But he tells this kid. Well, kid, he tells us the stepson, you know, get away from her and the stepson charged him. The old guy fires,  shoots at the five rounds  and then the fights continuing and ends up going outside.  And then the neighbors show up, separate them, and call the police and the paramedics.  Well, the prosecutor,  you know, because if the shooting happened inside, it's pretty clear self defense. If it happened outside, then, oh, you had him outside and then you tried to kill him, then it's attempted murder. And, but like the detectives on scene in the crime scene texts were like, No, the shooting happened in the kitchen, but he tried to push it that, Oh, this guy didn't, you know, it actually happened outside this 70 year old man who didn't even have a high school graduation  in a couple of minutes, staged the crime scene so that it fooled the detectives in the crime scene text. Like, that's your theory of what happened. And I wrote it up and they were the day before they were getting ready to start trial.  They offered him. Because they kept offering him better and better deals, but the deals were he'd have to plead guilty to something, and he's like, I'm not guilty, so I'm not going to plead guilty. So the day before they went to trial, they offered him,  um, or the day before jury selection started, they offered him, if you plead no, do a no low plea, which is, you're not saying you're guilty, you're just saying, I don't think I could beat this in court, even though I'm not guilty. You know, the deal's too good to pass up, so I'll take the deal.  Yeah, you plead guilty to, like, basically disorderly conduct and we'll give you time to serve and you can be out today. So, he took that deal. And that's something that I see a lot of, like, because I'm in the Portland area and the Multnomah County DA, even if it's a clear cut case of self defense, they'll charge you with attempted murder and hopefully you'll plea out on something. It's absolutely ridiculous.  Yeah, the first case I ever took as an expert witness this lawyer contacts me So I got a guy who's been in jail five months waiting. Yeah, this is clear self defense. The lawyer said I'm taking this as a pro bono case for the family because I don't want to see this guy get stuck with a public defender Because public defenders they mean well, but they're overworked and they can't do their job Give enough attention to a case and this one. Yeah, I'm like, all right Well look send me all the discovery on the case and I'll take a look at it If I think your guys guilty is charged I'll let you know but I won't charge you for my time  and I'll just walk away from because I don't want to help a Guilty person go free and I'm looking at all the discovery and it was a shooting that happened. This guy and his friends were in the parking lot of a store. They were getting custom t shirts made.  This other car drives up, the driver sticks a gun out the window, opens fire and the defendant returned fire. And I'm reading this detectives the arrest warrant affidavit because the detective saw this from a security camera and I'm the detective writes up that You know, this was on a busy day during rush hour. There's a lot of people around and traffic, and  he writes that the defendant and the guy in the other car, they stared at each other almost like old west gunfighters. And then he calmly walks over to the  car, gets behind the engine block, takes up a defensive position.  The other car approaches and they started shooting. People had to dive out of the way and cars had to slam on their brakes to avoid being hit by gunfire. I'm gonna read that going, that kind of sounds guilty to me. But then I watched the video, and the first time I watched the video, I missed the shooting. Because I was looking for what the detective wrote in the statement, and it just wasn't there. And what happened was, yeah, these guys are hanging out,  waiting for their shirts to get made. The other car pulls up.  The guy sticks a gun out the window and points it at him as he's driving by, then the defendant takes up a crouch position behind the engine block. The suspect vehicle,  the guy starts shooting,  when he fired his fourth round, the defendant fired his first round. It's like, okay, he's under fire, he didn't,  there was no interaction between these guys to begin with.  This was clear self defense. But also what was interesting was there were no other cars on the street. There were no pedestrians diving out of the way. So essentially what it sounds like is that the detective's story doesn't match up with anything from the, from the security footage.  It didn't. And  there's some of it that could be explained as  just little minor embellishments. You know,  my dad was a cop. I've got a brother that was a cop, an uncle that was a cop. I was a cop.  So I tend to come with things under the point of view that the cops did everything right, but in this case, it's like, even giving him the point of, the benefit of the doubt on it being a crowded day when he described people diving out of the way to avoid being hit by gunfire, and there was nobody there, it's like, you absolutely lied,  you know, and this wasn't just  like, well, he watched the video once and had to write his report. He could pause, he could rewind, he could do, you know, he had unlimited time.  But what happened, they knew the ID of the defendant the day of the shooting, but they didn't arrest him for three weeks.  And during that time there were a lot of unsolved gang shootings, and so there was a lot of media attention.  on the mayor's office and the police to make some arrests. So I think they were just like, Hey, write this up, do whatever you got to do so that we can arrest somebody.  And I wrote up my report and I, you know, I also used to be an accountant. So I have that. And that's what I'm doing now as a part time job, well, full time job, but I work from home.  Um, so I'm very detailed and meticulous and  I wrote up everything.  That this detective lied and he was destined for the Brady list.  The Brady list is a list that every district attorney's office has to keep of police officers that have been found to be untruthful in the official performance of their duties.  And it's the kiss of death if you're a cop, because you can't even write a parking.  You know, you're like, you're going to be a records clerk.  You know, that's all you can do.  You're done for.  Yeah. And I submitted my report to the defense attorney at three o'clock on a Monday afternoon.  So he read it and sent it to the DA's office because they have to disclose everything.  Wednesday morning at nine o'clock, the DA has a meeting with the defendant and he says,  if you plead guilty to disorderly conduct, we'll give you time served and you can go home today.  The offer's on the table for five minutes. Talk it over with your lawyer, let us know what you're going to do.  Now, both me and the lawyer thought that  we could easily beat this case in court,  but if you've been in jail five months, facing the rest of your life in prison,  the DA says,  Hey, you plead guilty to a minor misdemeanor and you can go home today.  That deal's just too good to pass up. And that's what the guy did. And that detective is still on the job,  man. He essentially let the detective get away.  Yeah, and  I've seen other stuff that detective has done that makes me,  just kind of makes my blood boil because in that other case we were talking about, that 70 year old man, he interviewed him in jail,  but the shooting happened at 11 o'clock at night.  He didn't start the interview till almost six o'clock in the morning.  Like this is a 70 some year old guy who's been awake for nearly 24 hours. He's sleep deprived.  And  you're,  and if you go through this interview, the interview lasted well over an hour.  The guy's responses  got down to like one word,  just, yeah, uh, I guess it's like, he's not even paying attention to what you're asking him anymore.  And they finally asked him, well, is it possible that the shooting took place in the backyard and you just don't remember that?  Now, is it possible, but that happened, but you don't remember the guy's like, I don't I guess that's possible. Okay, cool. Now you're under arrest  is you just change your story  and seeing them, you know, charge a guy with attempted murder for such flimsy evidence.  Yeah, that just makes right. Right. Because there's just so much injustice and unfairness. And that's almost. You know, taking advantage  of the man's health of his age. And, you know, I just don't understand, you know, these detectives, you know, they're supposed to be about justice, but there's all they want to do is get people arrested and, and, you know, almost like make a commission. It seems like it's, it's crazy to me that, you know, they will go to the point of falsifying evidence and what pisses me off even more is the fact that in court. People will believe what, you know, these people are saying despite the contradicting like actual real physical evidence, like security  footage, and that's aggravates me that they will take a person's word with no evidence over actual evidence.  Yeah, and the one case that really  just like this should never been filed.  This was in Wisconsin.  A guy's in a bar and grill having dinner with a date  and somebody comes up to him completely unprovoked punches him in the face.  He falls off his chair. They're wrestling on the ground.  Okay. The guy that was having dinner had a concealed carry on him  and they end up fighting over the gun  and the gun discharges and wounds the attacker.  Okay, police get the call that there was a shooting at this bar, so they come. Hollin up.  The first two officers that arrived, one was a patrol sergeant.  The other was an administrative lieutenant.  The lieutenant had not been on the streets for 20 years.  The sergeant tells him,  look, we got backup 30 seconds away. Let's wait to go in till they get there. The lieutenant says, no, this is an active shooter. We have to go in.  The lieutenant turns off his body cam  and goes into the bar by himself.  But he sees that. Yeah, he sees the defendant standing there. The gun is in his hand, but it's down at his side, pointing at the floor.  The lieutenant opens fire,  hits him in the arm,  but also hits a woman standing behind the defendant. And kills her  insane. Okay.  They charged the defendant with felony murder.  And I'm  now for those who don't know, felony murder is when you're committing a crime  and anybody gets killed. Like if you and I went and robbed a seven 11 and the clerk shot and killed me, you'd be charged with my murder because we were committing a crime and somebody died.  You know, it's  so did a Lieutenant get written up?  No, I think what happened was  the DA charged the defendant  in order to save the cop's career.  That's so correct. But he only, but here's the thing, he only charged him with felony murder and under the state statute, they had enumerated like six different charges, like burglary, robbery, sexual assault, or whatever,  that if you were convicted of one of those crimes and somebody died.  Then it was felony murder, but he wasn't charged with anything else.  A competent attorney  should have gone,  Hey, he hasn't been charged with anything else. This case is fatally flawed. We want it to be dismissed and it should have been thrown out right then and there. The problem was he got a lawyer who was a crusader  who wanted to argue that the felony murder statute was immoral. And.  It should be thrown out and he wanted me to argue that  as an ex cop, I felt that it was immoral and he shouldn't be charged, but I was like, dude, you can get your guy acquitted right now.  It's like, that's what you need to focus on.  He ended up,  uh, not hiring me and  the defendant ended up taking a plea deal for 36 years  and I'm like,  dude, you should have fired your lawyer from the start.  This is absolutely insane. Was there no camera footage from the bar?  No,  but  everybody knew that.  It's like even the police reports,  the lieutenant was like, yeah, he had a gun in his hand, pointed at the floor.  I opened fire  it.  Like nobody's disputing that that's what happened, but it's like,  but he should have got in there and still  that's, that's insane. He should have gone in there and said, drop your weapon, given him a verbal,  uh, command first.  Yeah, he should have, but he didn't.  And why did the lieutenant  turn off his body cam?  That's, that's the most I think what happened Intriguing part.  Yeah. I think what happened is that lieutenant was tired of being stuck behind a desk. He saw this as his opportunity to be a hero.  And he made up his mind he was gonna go be a hero.  Right. No, I 100 percent agree.  Yeah. I 100 percent agree. But the issue is he killed an innocent woman.  Yeah, he should be charged with that woman's murder.  Yeah, and I don't understand, there's a,  cause there's a bar full of people, so there's witnesses. Yeah,  yeah, the policy violations, because he broke the department's policy by turning off his body cam. Right, exactly.  But, yeah, things like that happen. Um,  but the big thing,  like,  I always tell people,  If you're in a self defense situation, when the police show up and they go, What happened?  You say, this person tried to kill me.  And when they go, well, how did he get shot?  Don't say I shot him because that's an admission.  Say, Officer, I will cooperate fully with your investigation after I've spoken to my attorney.  And then stop talking.  Don't admit to anything. Don't say anything. And don't say,  yeah, don't say, well, can I have an attorney or should I get an attorney? Say I want an attorney  clearly say you want an attorney and stop talking.  All right. Well, ladies and gentlemen, that's your advice right there. Listen to that. That is really important because I, from personal experience and from a lot of stories I've heard from other people, the police and, and the court system, especially will twist your words any way they can to be used against you. So, yep.  And I've seen people that it should have been a clear cut self defense case,  but  you have to understand, when the police put you in an interview room, they don't call it an interrogation room, it's an interview room,  and their job  is not to be your friend, their job is not to find out what, you know, additional details,  their whole, their sole job, if you, once you get into an interview room,  is to keep you talking until you say something  so that they can charge you with a crime.  The only two things that are going to stop that interview are  you saying something so that they can charge you or you asking for a lawyer.  That's it.  There have been police interviews that have lasted over 18 hours  and  they will ask you the same question 15 different ways and if your answer varies slightly if your wording changes. Oh, that's an admission of guilt  and they're gonna cherry pick statements,  you know, out of a 15 hour interview, they'll cherry pick three or four statements that make you look guilty  and then charge you.  So your biggest advice to anyone  who ends up  being in a,  um, being in a self defense position is  don't even say it was self defense, just say nothing, say nothing. You will comply and cooperate, but you're going to speak to an attorney first, correct?  Correct.  Um, if you say,  like some mistakes people make, they're like,  this guy, the gun just went off.  Okay.  You've just admitted to a negligent discharge at minimum.  And in the state of Oregon,  a criminal negligence  that results in the death of someone is first degree murder. Correct. Thank you.  Right. I mean, those are if you say, oh,  yeah, if you say, well, the gun just went off and that's a common thing because people want to distance themselves  from saying,  I made the conscious decision to pull the trigger.  Understandable, but you have to know that the court system will twist your words. They, they want, they want to make you guilty. And so that distancing is even,  even just trying to blame shift like that, it's still going to be traced back to you or put off on you in a way that you didn't even mean.  You're not trying to say it was a negligent discharge. Obviously, you know that you, you fight it, but you're just trying to say, you know, That the gun went off,  right? And that way they could be like, well, you know, did they have it or whatever? But  I mean, don't say anything until you have someone who knows the system. Someone who, you know, whose job is  to fight these laws and knows these laws.  Yeah. There's a time and place to get your side of the events out there.  That time and place is not at the scene  just after someone has tried to kill you.  That's not the time.  You're at your most coherent,  right? You're going to be, you know, unless, unless you've been through something like that and have been trained on how to give a statement, you're going to be rattled.  You're not going to be thinking clearly. You may be remembering things non sequentially,  but there's a reason most police unions say.  You can't, you know, if an officer is involved in a shooting, he cannot give an official statement for at least 24 hours.  Yet, you know, if you're a civilian  involved in any kind of case, they'll, you know, start haranguing you the, the second they get to the scene.  So it's very interesting this, uh, I'll call it a double standard.  And if you say, well,  I want my attorney, well, only guilty people need lawyers. So why do you need a lawyer if you're not guilty?  Yeah, don't, don't let them talk. Don't let them play that game. Don't let them play that game. That's,  that's foolish. Protect yourself.  And here's the thing, it may have been clear cut self defense, and you may be intending to say to them,  you know, when they say, what happened? Well, this guy had a knife, he came across my yard, he got up here to my flowerbed, and he was like eight feet away, he raised the knife over his head, and I shot him.  But you're frazzled. So what comes out of your mouth is you walked across my flower bed and I shot him. Oh, so you shot him because he walked on your flowers. Okay, cool.  And that gets put in the report and anything you say differently. Oh, so now you're changing your story.  The police are going to try to lock you in on a story. And the more your story deviates from the physical evidence, the guiltier you look  and what a lot of people don't realize about the Miranda warning.  You know, they hear anything you say can be used against you in a court of law.  The flip side to that coin is  anything you say to the police that can help you  is inadmissible at that point  because it's hearsay.  The police, the way the court system works, if you say something that makes you look guilty, they assume you're telling the truth  because nobody has a reason to lie about looking guilty. If you say something that can help you  in court to the police.  Well, you may be lying. It's hearsay. It's inadmissible.  So a more honest Miranda warning would be,  anything you say can be used against you, nothing you say can be used to help you.  Now do you want to talk to the police?  Or no, I sure don't.  It's funny, um,  I was pulled over once and I actually ended up getting arrested. Uh, they did not read me that warning. They did not tell me my rights, which I was gonna try to use that for my fight, but there had been a court case  And a, you know, court decision in the past where someone said they did not read me my rights. I did not know that what I was saying could be used against me. And so because of that case,  now it doesn't matter, I guess, which is ridiculous, but  essentially I was speeding  and this car next to me was also speeding. Uh, and she was high and she tried racing me  and I just maintained my speed. I was already at max speed. It was a country road in the middle of the night.  Cop pulls me over, um, because I comply, I pull over, right? The other person takes off and they, you know, they have, um, you know, the cops are chasing them. They went down a couple of roads and eventually got pulled over. And the cops said, why were you going that fast? Blah, blah, blah. And I said, Oh, I was speeding. I said, this person tried racing me. He goes, so you were street racing illegally. And he pulls me out of the car and arrest me. And that's not at all what happened. I said, this person was trying to race me. I'd never said I was racing them that I was trying to race. I said, I was speeding. I said, then this person tried to race me. And before I could say anything more,  you know, he arrested me. He explained. And then he explained on the ride over to the, the jail that he had a thing against military guys now, because he had pulled over  a, another military member, the same rate as me, a nuke. Uh, who had been going 120 on their motorcycle on the way back from work. And he let them go. He said, don't do this again. Well, he called them the next day, and he decided, you know what, I'm done. You know, giving free passes to military guys, I'm done. Being nice to them. I'm gonna take them all in and, you know, give them the harsh treatment. Uh, so it really sucked for me. And what's up for me was  I even asked him, I said, define street racing. I had him print me up the law and the police documents regarding street racing, and he was trying to say, well, you were operating a motor vehicle on a roadway. Going at a fast speed and another car next to you was going at a fast speed. Originally, I didn't even know there was another car next to me.  I said, you know, I was just driving. I was just speeding. Cause I want to get where I was going. It was midnight in a country road and I was just trying to get where I was going. I had a long drive ahead of me and this person, they were in my blind spot. Originally, I didn't even know there was a car next to me because when they pulled me over, they said.  Who, who was racing you? I said, I had no idea that they were like, you agreed to erase. I said, no, he was like, you didn't make eye contact with them. Some kind of signal to agree to erase. I said, I didn't even know they were there. I said, I didn't even know there was a second vehicle involved until the very end when you pulled us over.  But no, they, they threw me in jail and I had to pay seven grand to fight the whole thing. And then, you know, the court makes it so. Much of a headache. So expensive and so much of a headache and inconvenient with your schedule. I mean, they were saying it would be a minimum way of two years that you just, you know, you're like, forget it, forget it. Just like the guy who was sitting in jail for five months. He's like, forget this. I'm I'm not, I don't want to fight this. I don't care anymore. I just want to go home.  Yeah. I had one guy. Um,  fortunately he was out on bail,  but he worked with, he was a corrections officer  and.  It was a confrontation during a political rally,  this guy was an asshole, but,  so these other people stopped his car and wouldn't let him move, and  he got out of his car, and he had a knife in his hand, but down at his side, which,  okay, how he's using it, it's like,  that's not a use of force, like as a cop, I've walked up on cars before with my gun in my hand, You know,  behind my leg, like this guy had his, that's not a use of force,  but he got arrested and charged  and I think they were expecting him to plead out to something  and he didn't, because even if he pled to  the lowest misdemeanor out there, he loses job and his pension.  So he fought this and.  The first trial,  that was the most, the roughest  cross examination I've ever been under. The DA, like, the direct examination from the defense attorney lasted like 20 minutes and the DA had me on the stand for 4 hours.  But the first trial ended in a mistrial and just before the deadline to see if he wanted to file charges again, the DA dismissed the whole thing.  But yeah, it like any,  now cops are allowed to ask you things like when they first get on the scene, like what happened?  Hey, what's going on here? Or say, say, you're not going to say anything. I've learned my lesson. I will talk when it's when  like, do you know why I pulled you over?  And they're hoping you say, yeah, because I was speeding. And then they can write you up for speeding because that's an admission of guilt,  right? Yeah, that's an admission of guilt  if if a cop pulls you over and goes,  do you know why I pulled you over?  Do you know why you pulled me over? You  know, as long as one of us knows like I have no idea why you pulled me over officer  You know, where were you trying to go that fast?  You know, do you know how fast you were going?  I was doing the speed limit,  you know then  But yeah, don't make any admissions  Right. And one of the things too is you're so  frazzled when you're,  you know,  um, when you're pulled over, I mean, whether you were doing something or not, it's always just like, wow, what's going on? And I remember  I felt like  the sheriff had tried helping me  by saying that because in his statement, he wrote. You know, Mr. Whiskey was very in shock and panicking. And he kind of set up where he tried saying he believed I misspoke and that we could use it. Um, but unfortunately it did not help, but that's the thing too. You know, people were like, why, why would you say that? Why would you say, you know, this or accidentally admit to that? You know, when you're pulled over. Or especially if you were just in a self defense force, like you said, and, you know, you're not used to that stuff, I mean, you're really going through it.  Yeah, your adrenaline's up, you're, you've just burned through all your blood sugar.  Like,  if you've never been in comp, like I know dudes who,  when, like after a gunfight,  they get sleepy.  It's like, yeah, you want, you want to snack on something because you're tired. You just gone through all your blood sugar from your adrenaline spiking.  And now you're ready to crash  and you're just not going to be thinking clearly. And the first thing you think is the cops are here to help me, you know, not here to prove me guilty.  And  another good point is  in the U S in the police data terminals in their car, when they get. A message from dispatch. Dispatch will pre fill in who the victim is. So,  if you have any kind of self defense situation, you need to call 911.  Because the first one who calls 911, wins.  And you tell the dispatcher, I was just attacked, this person attacked me.  You know, I need police and medical at this location. Okay, why do you need medical? Because the other person's hurt. Did you hurt him? We'll get to that later. But we need police and medical. This person attacked me.  Okay. What's your name? And then they put you down as the victim.  So when the cop pulls up, he goes, Oh, Mr. Whiskey was the victim.  And Oh, are you Mr. Whiskey? Yeah. What happened? This guy came at me with this lead pipe demanding money. Okay. How'd he get shot?  I'll, we'll get to that later after I've had a chance to speak to my attorney.  Right. Okay. So you're saying. You want to, you want to make it clear that you're the victim.  Yeah. Make it clear that you were the victim  and that this person attacked you. You know, if this person came at me, I want him arrested. He's got two bullets in his head. He's clearly not alive anymore. I still want him arrested.  He attacked me.  Where this really comes into place is  there have been situations where  like a crazy person is on your door trying to get in because they've got the wrong house, but they're so freaked out on meth.  And you're telling them, you know, you need to leave, you need to leave, you need to leave. And there was one case, um, I wasn't involved in it, but I was reading about it later.  The homeowner exited the house with a shotgun and told them, you need to  get out of here.  And the person left. And so the homeowner just went about their business. Well, that person  got to wherever they were going and was like, I can't believe that person pulled a gun on me. And they called 911.  And they go, yeah. Yeah. You know, I wasn't trying to get home, but I had the wrong house. And this guy just popped out of the  house, the shotgun and threatened me.  Well, who called 911 first?  The other guy, you know, cause if the other guy called and said,  Hey, I just had someone pounding on my door, trying to break my door in  and I scared him off.  You know, at least then there's a he said, he said  element to it, but if you don't call the police at all,  and  the other person  who was clearly in the wrong says, oh, this person tried to kill me,  you know, that's who the cops are going to believe, and then they're going to go, well, did you come out of the house with a shotgun? Well, yeah, but. Okay, now you're under arrest,  which which boggles me because if I'm a whole homeowner and I have my second amendment rights because I'm a proud American. I mean, I'm allowed to have a firearm on my property. Uh, granted, I have the proper paperwork, you know, the license and whatever. I mean, I'm a, I don't understand why as an American, I can't answer the door how I want.  As long as I don't discharge the firearm, if I answer it because I don't know you and you're on my property trying to break into my house, even if it's on accident, I should have the right to answer  with the expectation that I don't know if you're armed or not. And I have to assume that  for whatever reason you're trying to get into my property, you might be armed, you might be dangerous.  Right now there's a difference between.  You know, somebody ringing your doorbell going,  Hey, is this the Jones house? No, it's not. Oh, okay.  Right. But  you know, if that's, you're not going to come out with a gun, but somebody  kicking on your door, that's a different situation and yeah, you do it now at an unreasonable time.  Yeah. Now I had somebody years ago,  pounded on my door, trying to get  it in. And I was like,  dude, and he starts yelling, Hey Steve, let me in. I'm like.  Dude, there's nobody named Steve here. You got, you got the wrong house and I cracked the door a little bit. I had my foot behind the door and I'm like, dude, you've got the wrong house. This guy's clearly drunk, doesn't know where he is.  Like I'm not letting you in my house and he's try shoving his way into my house. And then he realizes I'm naked, holding a pistol in my hand.  Like, dude, you need to leave or something bad's going to happen.  And then he.  And he took off and did call the police because it was about 20 degrees out and this guy's just wearing a t shirt. It's like, he's going to sit down on the sidewalk, pass out, freeze to death,  you know. Plus, I also wanted the cops to know,  yeah, this guy was trying to force his way into my house.  You know, I don't just normally answer the door carrying a gun.  Well, I do, but I don't show it to people.  My wife kind of thinks I'm paranoid because if somebody knocks on the door, yeah, I answer the door with a gun.  Yeah, until I don't blame you, especially in this day and age where a lot of people have guns illegally or illegally. A lot of people are on drugs. A lot of people abuse alcohol. A lot of people are just desperate nowadays.  Yeah, the average home invasion takes place between 3 p. m. and 9 p. m.  Right. Your home.  And  there's a lot of instances of people knocking on doors saying,  you know, I was just hurt. I was beat up. Can I come in your house and use the phone?  No,  I'll call 911 for you.  You know, you, you just sit down. I'll call 911.  Right. Don't let someone in your house. My dad, he lives in Colorado and kind of a remote area. He had a woman knock on his door at one o'clock in the morning.  And he has a storm door so he can, you know, open his main door, but still have a barrier between who else on the outside.  And he's like, can I help you? And this woman's like, Oh yeah, you know, my car broke down and my cell phone's out of battery. Can I come in your house and charge your phone so I can make a phone call?  And he goes,  there's a outlet right there. He goes, you know, I'm not going to let you in my house, but you can use that outlet. Yeah.  And this woman's like, Oh, I'm just a, you know, just a woman, you know, I'm no threat  to you. You don't have to be afraid of me. Like, and my dad's like, I'm an ex cop with a gun in my hand. I'm not afraid of you, but you're not getting in my house. And she just took off because yeah, she's trying to talk her way into somebody's house. And I'm sure that if he had gone, Oh yeah, sure. Come on in. There would have been a couple of dudes that he didn't see. Around the corner ready to bust in  right? It's like no, you're not breaking it if  If I thought someone was breaking into my house  I just sit and wait. I'd  place a 911 call and just sit and wait for him to come in.  Then if they actually do break in,  now I've got more legal justification.  And fortunately, the laws  mostly,  if you're in your home, you have a lot more legal protection than if you're outside your home.  But yeah, don't go, you know, if someone's like, don't go chasing someone.  That's  because.  If someone,  let's say someone's trying to break into your house and they see you standing there with a gun and they run off  in the eyes of the law, they have discontinued this event  because either verbally  or through their brain to retreat, they've signaled  I'm done.  If you go after them, that's a second event, and you're the aggressor.  Right. So,  we're gonna wrap it up here, but I wanna recap some of the great advice you've given us. Thank you so much, Mr. Robertson, but essentially,  try to keep things inside the home. Don't let people inside your home. And, always be the first one to call the cops. And, try to keep a tight mouth. a professional mouth and Refuse to say anything until you've spoken with an attorney. So just some great things because we've seen Especially you firsthand the uh injustice of the court system. I want to thank you. Mr. Robertson for You know  And uh, one more thing going yes to the defense insurance  You can get self defense insurance that will pay for your attorneys your bail  And because defending yourself in a use of force is going to cost you 000 minimum.  And,  uh,  product placement.  Yeah, that's fine.  Um, I use  the U S concealed carry association, us CCA. I use their insurance. So I'm not going to say the amount I've got, but  yeah, they will cover you. If  you're in a use of force,  right? So if you're in an area where you think you're going to definitely be involved in a self defense case, if you feel like you're in an area or a position where that's likely to happen to you, uh, so I would definitely recommend you looking into that then, uh, cause like the court, the court bill racks up fast.  Yeah, if you, um,  if you carry a concealed firearm, you should have concealed carry insurance. For me as an expert witness, just to look at the evidence and write up an initial report is going to cost you three or 4, 000. If I have to go to court and testify every day, I'm there, you're going to be paying another three grand plus expenses. Wow.  Well, that's all the time we have for today, but I want to thank you, Mr. Robertson for going to court and trying to help out these innocent people. I mean, just on, on behalf of them and the American people. I mean, thank you for that. And thank you for your service. And I'm glad that you're continuing, uh, as you advance in years here to continue to serve our country and our people. And thank you for coming on the show. It's been a great time. I really enjoyed talking to you. We had some funny stories. We had some great advice. We had some serious talks and I think it was a great time. Thank you for coming on.  Well, thank you for having me.

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