Episode Transcript
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Kapua Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and one thing I've addressed before on this show, because it's one of my favorite topics, is the intersection of science and faith. And for me, the more I've studied the science that really backs the faith and the faith that backs the science, the interchange of it, it, it has really been mind-blowing and amazing. And for me, that stemmed from being in the nuclear operator community. There are certain people, when you're having evangelical conversations, where they prefer numbers and logic, and, uh, that actually is better for them. Some people prefer history, so I always use the Book of Daniel and that great historical wisdom and prophecy in there. And then some people just want to know the good message of Christ. And so evangelism comes in all forms. I've, uh, done it. I've, you know, been able to work on it in Japan and America. Very different, uh, social structures there and stuff. And so excited to be having this conversation to talk about what can science tell us about God and faith? And, uh, you know, I'll put it very simply, as I heard, uh, Pastor Skip Heitzig, he's one of my favorite pastors, say once in his Genesis sermon The universe is made up of numbers, right? You know, uh, and, and there's these core numbers, and a lot of them contribute to life being able to exist here on this planet. And many of them, if they were to be changed by .0005, all life would die. So it actually takes greater faith to believe that all of those numbers lined up exactly perfectly than to believe that there was a designer. But we're gonna get into... That is just one of many topics today here with Richard Crowlan to talk about his journey of both science and faith, and his life story, and the message he has for us now. So Mr. Crowlan, so great to have you here. I'm super excited to get into this conversation. Uh, and you know, don't worry, ladies and gentlemen, we're not gonna get too scientificy on, on you. You know, we're gonna break everything down pretty simply. But, uh, it still will blow your mind. So Mr. Crowlan, thank you so much for being here. Oh, my pleasure. And thank you for having me, and welcome to the audience. Uh, yeah, I, I... Just a little bit about myself. I grew up in Western Pennsylvania. I, uh, consider myself to be a philosopher by nature, but I was trained in mathematics. Uh, I also built a company which today is at about $3.3 billion. So, uh, I've had a fairly successful life, very difficult life, uh, but a successful life. But in my family group, I'm talking about the people who had Thanksgiving dinner at my house for the first 18 years of their lives. Today, one of those folks is the chief science officer and president of a biotechnology engineering group up in, uh, Hanover, uh, e- that was spun out of, uh, MIT, where he got his PhD. Another one of those people is a high energy density plasma experimental physicist. It's my daughter. She got the Department of Energy's highest, uh, honor for her work on the fusion project, if anyone's paying attention to nuclear fusion. Her and her husband worked on that team. Another one of these people, uh, is a, uh, electrical engineer who's currently designing, uh, the power system in our nuclear, next generation of nuclear subs. Uh, another one, believe it or not, is a rocket scientist who led the team designing the second stage booster system for the SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket that's been going to, uh, the space station for many years now. In fact, he got bored there once the rocket started working perfectly every time and he went to another company called Boom, and he was the chief design engineer there for a supersonic passenger jet, which is, uh, has been tested. Their work was to get rid of the sonic boom while you're traveling above the speed of sound, and they've engineered the boom out of it so they can travel across the country- Hmm ... uh, not just across the ocean. So my point is that there's a lot of scientists in my family, and there's other medical doctors and, uh- So I've always been a lover of science. I'm a lover of truth, and there's a, you know, truth, you can find a lot of truth in science. There's some bogus science out there, but- Yeah ... yeah. So my whole life I've been, I've been studying this, and also, like yourself, and I'm sure everyone, we know people who say they believe in science, but they don't believe in God. And I got to the point where I realized that position is untenable. I mean, what we know about science these days, what we ... As I say, we pushed the frontiers of human knowledge back, the advances have been so great in every field, that the role of the divine, the role of God is undeniable now. You can see what He's done in the origin of life. You can see what He's done and to maintain the universe. Uh, very active, very present. Uh, so, uh, I finally got around after many years to, to writing a book entitled The Bridge from Science to God. And that first half of that book is directed right to those people who think science and God don't fit together. In fact, science leads to the obvious conclusion that God is real. And the latter half of the book talks about what that means for our lives. You know, once you understand that and accept the truth, uh, accept that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then He came here to tell us what we needed to know in addition to at- atone for our sins, then you start listening to what He's saying and what He's requiring of us. And when you get to that point, life, no matter how difficult it is, you get all the help you need to get through it successfully, even triumphantly. So yeah, I'm trying to help everybody to understand that God is real and, and what that can mean for us e- each individually. And I, I love that. There's so much truth to how your book is composed because knowing is one thing. Building the relationship and understanding is a second part, and the m- the really important part. And you can just know God or you can just believe that God exists and, and not really know him personally. I, uh, back in the day, I had done a sermon on Pascal's Wager, and I'm not sure if you're familiar with it as a mathematician, but basically it's the statistical gambling of, you know, there's infinite reward or infinite punishment or temporary sacrifice, and it basically mathematically calculates basically saying that the output is, hey, it's a better chance of believing in God, temporarily giving up some stuff on this life that doesn't cost too much, and getting eternal reward than to indulge in whatever it is here temporarily and risk eternal, you know, condemnation. And so it's basically saying, if you're a gambling man, it's, it-- forget, forget the drugs and sex. I, I rather risk eternal, uh, reward than, than condemnation. Um, but that's just a stepping stone to faith because you can look at Pascal's Wager, read the statistical numbers, and you know all this math, uh, and still not know God. Just believing God exists and believing in God are two different things. So I wanna talk about going into your backstory. Growing up from y- you mentioned a very, uh, academically accomplished and intelligent family. What was the faith environment like, though? I-- because I don't want people to hear this and say, "Well, everyone in the family is a scientist, therefore they're all atheists." You know, I've met plenty of scientists and well-accomplished people who do believe in the faith, and then on the other end, people who don't. So what was the faith environment like growing up? Well, that's an interesting question because in, in my case, my family's case, uh, I, I'm old. I'm 72 years old, so I grew up in the 1950s and '60s and in Catholic schools. And, uh, they forced us to go to church during the week. The nuns would take us to church. And back in those days, there was the baby boom was in full bloom. There were 100 kids in my first grade class and my second grade class as we went through. Wow. And there were... And, and those classes were broken into two classrooms, so there were 50 kids in each class. One nun kept us all in line somehow, only through the grace of God, I'm sure. But, uh, they'd take us to church, and the pews were made for adults, so they weren't comfortable for people our size, okay? And if you giggled, you know, you got punished for that, and, and the punishment was immediate. Back in those days, corporal punishment wasn't, uh, prohibited. And if I whispered something to the kid next to me and he bust out laughing, we'd both get punished. I mean, you were being monitored. It was very strict. And up on the altar, I'll call it the stage, up on the stage, the mass was being said in Latin. None of us knew Latin. So I mean, we were getting absolutely- We were getting nothing- Right out of this experience except pain and, you know, uh- Yeah, it wasn't enjoyable, it wasn't instructional. It, it just didn't do anything. So, uh, when I got to be 17, I went off to college, and that was basically the end of my involvement with, with religion. Uh, and I, you know, went through life. I learned about the Big Bang. I studied that, everything I could find on that, which was a godless, uh, alternative to the Genesis story in the Bible, you know, how the universe came to be. I read up on the, uh, evolution, which was a godless explanation for how life began. Sci- I thought science had this all figured out, and, uh, y- there was no evidence of God. And so I became, you know, fascinated with science as my family got into various fields. I'd talk to them all the time. Uh, but the faith part of it was very difficult. I mean, it wasn't something that stuck with me throughout my life. It, it, it was there at the beginning, it left, and then it took me 20-some years to get back to, uh, the reality of God's presence, of his role in the universe, and, uh, what that means for each of us. Uh, my other family members, uh, there's a couple that are still atheists, but generally speaking, most of us are churchgoers. You know, most of us, uh, have found our way back to the faith if we ever left it. Others just stayed with it the whole time. But, uh, yeah, in my case, it was, it was not a joyful experience. Hmm. Yeah, I relate to that. I went to Catholic school, private school. Uh, there was only six other kids in my grade- Mm-hmm ... so not quite 100. Uh, you know, by, by my generation, those were becoming much, much smaller, and a lot of people actually went there for higher education rather than faith. And I actually had the same thing- Mm-hmm where you were graded on your behavior in church and what you took away from, you know, kind of the sermon that day. And- I have found that making church an obligation and a grade and a punishment, uh, rather than teaching and explaining the relationship and the importance of it has led many people astray. I've done over hundreds of interviews, many episodes on church hurt, on hypocrisy in the church, on corruption, on people just, you know, being forced into the faith. And so it, it's a shame. And, you know, I've had my own faith journey, and part of that has been studying science as well. But actually I've studied a lot of science that is kind of been refuted. You know, looking at stuff that is proposed in evolution theory, but never actually observed once in our whole lifetime, you know? And looking at, uh, is God's signature written on our DNA, if you look at the coding and the letters, and looking at, uh, some great conversion stories. Um, there was a man who converted because of just the complexity of the human eye, and how if one little thing was wrong the eye wouldn't work. And, uh, John ET, he's the host of Refuge Freedom Stories, great guy. You know, uh, he had a guest on his podcast who had dissected a human body, uh, that was donated for science, for medical training, and he said that was the day he converted, when he opened up a human being and saw the absolute complexity and design of it, and he said, "There has to be a God." And, uh, it's just amazing. So I'd love to know what was kind of like the first step where you were like, "Hey, I, I..." So you talked about kind of like how you grew up. You kind of went astray for a while. You went into science. What kind of brought you back into the faith? Was there like a single moment? Was it a progression? What did that journey look like? Yeah, that's, uh... I, I love that question, because I put off reading the Bible until after I was 40 years old. I did that intentionally. I mean, it would occur to me be- beforehand, uh, to read, but, you know, I didn't think I had enough life experience. I mean, the message of the Bible was purported to be infinite wisdom of the creator of the universe, who, uh, what He's telling us. And until I was 40, you know, by that time I had experience as a, as a child, as a parent, as an athlete, as a husband, as a professional. In my professional career I'd done a lot of different things. I have some lifelong illnesses. But I thought if I waited until after I was 40, I would be able to judge whether this Bible was what it was supposed to be, what the message w- was it re- or was it some charlatan claiming, you know, to, to have power and you should respect them? So I sat down on a Wednesday evening, it's very memorable, uh, started reading the Gospel of Matthew, and, uh, got about 20-some pages through it in two hours. I read it very slowly and thoughtfully. And on every page, five or six times, I got the exact same message, which was, "Don't worry about yourself. Take care of others, I'll- g- but God will take care of, God will take care of me." So that changed my heart. I mean, the wisdom that was on those pages, the, the, uh, instruction, and it, it was overwhelming. I mean, it just, it just got to me. I realized this really was, uh, instruction from somebody who knows more than all the rest of us. Uh, so anyhow, financially back then, uh, my wife worked, I worked. We had two children in school, private schools. Uh, money was tight. I mean, you know, we had a mortgage, we had car payments, we had tuition payments. Uh, so I wasn't a giver. I mean, up to that point through my atheism years, I was not a giver. I didn't think I had any money to give, uh, nothing left over But the next morning, uh, you know, I changed my heart, I changed my mind about how I should behave. And, and the next morning I was walking from my car to my office, and there was a, a man there every day for years, uh, panhandler, beggar, whatever you wanna call him, asking for money. I walked by him every day. Well, the next morning, Thursday morning, I gave him a dollar and, uh, went to work. Next day, Friday, see him again, give him a dollar. "Thank you." "You're welcome." Go to work. Monday morning, same thing. Give him a dollar, go to work. When I get home from work on Monday, there was a check in the mail for $63 for me. And I don't recall the details of it, but it, it was, you know, it was from me, it was my money. Uh, well that's, that's nice. Pleasant surprise. So on Tuesday I go to work, I give him a dollar. Get home from work on Tuesday and there's a check in the mail for $250. Now, this was because I was in a car accident about a year earlier. I paid my deductible and took the insurance company a year to find, to find out it wasn't my fault, so they returned my deductible. So just like the first day, uh, if it had never shown up, I would've missed it. But here it was, and it was definitely mine. Next day, Wednesday, go home, there's a check in the mail for $1,825 for me. This was from the IRS. I used to do my own tax return back then, and they told me I made an error, math error, and I overpaid my taxes. This was not a tax return. I wasn't expecting a tax return. This was correcting a mistake I had made. They sent me $1,825. So at this point I'm having one of the best weeks of my life. You know, top five for sure. Thursday I go again, see Frank, give him a dollar. His name is Frank. He and I became great friends later on, but this is when we were just starting to get to know each other. Um, Thursday I get home, there's a check for $500 in the mail for me. Now, at this point, I don't recall the details of that check, but I, I literally stopped. I remember exactly where I was standing in, in next to the dining room table, and I stopped and looked up, said, "Thank you." I get the message. You know, what God was telling me is- You gotta be a giver. You gotta take care of other people. Don't worry about money. Uh, I'll take care of the money, you take care of other people. And, uh, the next day, Friday, another check. I don't recall the amount or, or what it was, but... So I decided to become a giver on a Thursday morning the week before, and in a little over a week I had thousands of dollars come in that I had never expected or experienced. In fact, I don't think I've ever gotten an unexpected check before or since, but that week God was telling me, "Hey, I'm here. I'm aware, uh, of w- what you're doing. I'm aware that your heart has changed, your mind has changed, your behavior has changed, and I wanna make sure you know that, you know, I'll be here for you. You just do what I ask you to do." And, uh, or maybe it's because I was a banker that He used money to get to me, but, uh, whatever the reason, uh, that was the week when I just changed everything. I mean, because I'd learned, I accepted the truth of the Gospels, and I was immediately shown that I was heading in the right direction. And from that week on, I mean, I've... And it's a journey. You don't just, you don't just say, "Okay, I believe now and I wanna do..." I mean- Right. Right ... to become a follower of Christ you need to change your habits, you need to change your personality. I mean, 'cause that stuff doesn't happen overnight. And, uh, it's been a 31 year journey, 32 year journey for me, and it, it continues. But, uh, but every time I do things the right way or for the right re- and for the right reasons, God has a way of showing you. It's not always money, but God has a way of showing you that you, you're doing the right thing and, and keep on going. Uh, so yeah, that's how I, that's how I went from atheism to a believer by reading the Gospel of Matthew, and it, it just really got to me. Amen. And as you said, it's definitely a journey. You know, anyone can wear a cross, not everyone can bear one, you know? And there's a lot of people nowadays who have Bible quotes in their social media bios, and they don't know what it means. You know, they just put it there once or, you know, they just wear Christianity as a marketing tool or to, you know, appear a certain way, and it, it's really sad. And, you know, I, I lament over people not reading the Bible when they're younger because the Bible is a book that does three things very well: prevention, intervention, and recovery. And so many people read it as intervention and recovery, but how I pray and lament if they had read it as prevention. You know, I look at a lot of my life experiences. You've had certainly more than me perhaps, and, you know, I, I think about how many things, if I had known and followed what was in the Bible, this stuff would have never happened, you know? And I, I don't grieve it in a resentful sense because, you know, as it says in Genesis, what was intended for evil, God has used for good. And, you know, there-- God is always reshaping our lives to be on the best path when we follow Him. But I also just think about how many people, you know, if they had read the Bible as a child or been taught it properly, could have had a walk of faith and a greater life for themselves and serving others so much sooner. And so that's why I'm glad we're having this conversation to help do that prevention side of it. And, and in intervention and recovery of course, but, you know, there is so much wisdom. And, and I, I would encourage even if you're not a believer, I always say to read the Bible because it's full of great wisdom in that whether you believe, you know, as Yeshua as the Messiah or not, as the Son of God or not, what he said was very wise. And, and it, it exists on its own, and, you know, the Old Testament as well. So you got into this journey of faith you mentioned. I, I'd love for you to talk about actually to bring up, was there a hardship point that you, you had really a lot of doubt or you almost walked away from the faith? Like, what would, what would you say was the most difficult testing of your faith, uh, over the past few decades? Well, I c- I can't say that I ever thought about walking away from it. Uh, I mean, I've had horrible experiences. I was once paralyzed from the neck down in a car accident. Wow. Uh, let me just tell you about that. Um, driving home, 50 mile drive from work. I'm a mile from home, and I... Get into a head-on collision. W- wasn't my fault, but, uh, when I could think again, uh, 'cause, I mean, your body's stunned. And, uh, when I could think again, I wasn't in... There was no pain, and, uh, so that's good, but I thought the car was on fire. So I reached over to open the door to get out, and my left hand didn't move. My left arm didn't move. Well, that's a problem, so I tried to do it with my right hand, and that didn't move. I- then I tried to move my feet, and nothing moved. I was paralyzed from the neck down. And, uh, my first thought went to my family. I had a 12-year-old and a 16-year-old, uh, you know, children, my wife. Uh, there was no way they could take care of a person in this condition. I mean, it was just completely unfair. I don't know if I can tell the story without getting a little emotional, but when you're in that situation, a complete disaster has fallen on you, uh, you start praying. At least that's... You know, I had already begun my journey of faith. So I got about six or seven words into, uh, the Our Father, the Lord's Prayer, when I got distracted by this incredible wave of confidence that came over me. I mean, I knew 100% that this was not going to stand. This was going to be fixed. And, uh, there, there's no reason for me to believe that. I mean, I'm still in the car. I can't move. I think it's on fire. I can't, I... Why would I suddenly know that everything was gonna be fine? But, uh, but I did. Uh, and, and, you know, of course, I finished my prayer once I got through that experience of letting this, this, uh, confidence overtake me. Uh, and of course, you can see things have came out well. I mean, I had to have surgery on my spinal cord, but everything turned out fine. But I've had a whole series of, I call them miracles, uh, certainly divine interventions. And I, and, and in the book I talk about 15 or so experiences like that, which have either saved my life in some cases or completely redirected my life. Uh, now in terms of the challenges of practicing your faith during these years, yeah, I mean, there were times when I thought I had it, I had it all figured out. I was behaving the right way, and I was there. And then something would happen and I realize I'm not even close. I mean, you can't be mad at people. You can't be... I- if you live in anguish, if you have anxiety, if you have fear about anything, you know, the first letter of John talks about there's, there's no love in fear. In fact, I understand the, uh, I didn't count them, but the most common phrase in the Bible is fear not. It's in there 365 times, uh, which is easy to remember because it's like God's telling us every single day of the year, you know, don't be afraid. Uh, but so I have experiences like that where I'm, I'm fear, I'm worried. I'm, you know, really suffering, and those are the times when I'm forgetting my faith. I mean, I, you know, I'm not applying my faith because when I get control in, in my faith re- I reassert my faith, then I realize, you know, throughout my life I've had these experiences and everything has turned out fine. And, and that's really the way I think God works in our lives. You're gonna, you're gonna live. You're gonna get hurt. People close to you are gonna die. People are gonna get sick. People lose their jobs. People get divorced. You don't get exempted from any of that just because you're, you know, you're a practicing Christian. But what happens is God... When those things happen, God provides you with what you need to get, to get through them successfully, even triumphantly in some cases, depending on the nature of the problem. But, uh, yeah, that's the challenge. Like I said, there wasn't a single day where I thought, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw this overboard." But just, you know, struggling to do a better job, to be a better Christian, to follow the teachings of Christ more effectively, that's, that's a constant challenge. And, and, you know, by the grace of God, my faith continues to strengthen every time I do something, like I said, that's, that's in the right direction and consistent with his teachings. Amen. So you've, you've shared now about your journey of faith. You mentioned a previous, you know, godless science expedition of, of studies. At what point did you say, "Let me intersect these two," and why did you make that decision? Well, it actually started with, uh, a gospel passage from Matthew, uh, which I was reading a few years ago. It's 7:13 and 14, where Christ says that, "The road is broad and the gate is wide, which leads to destruction. The path is narrow and the gate is small, which leads to eternal life." And when I read that, I mean, I just stopped in my tracks because The last phrase in verse 14 is, "Only a few will find it." Well, there's 8 billion people on the earth right now, and about 2.7 billion identify as Christians, and that doesn't include the tens of billions that have lived over the last, uh, 2,000 years, lived and di- But only a few? I mean, only a few are gonna find it. What, what are we doing wrong? I mean, what's everybody doing wrong except for these few? So I, I started searching for that answer, and the answer was readily available. I mean, Jesus said, "Love God," you know, "with all your being, and love your neighbor as yourself. Love those who hate you, love those who persecute you, love your enemies." Uh, you know, "Pray for them." Well, that's where I think we're all falling down. I mean, I, I think that even if you're a practicing Christian, you mentioned you wear, you know, people wear Christian insignias, wear a cross, uh, on... or whatever. Even good people, uh, whenever... Let's say somebody broke in. We all know good people. Let's, let's bring one of those to mind, somebody who's a good parent, a good spouse, they're faithful to their family, take care of their family. They, they, uh, give money to charity. Maybe they attend church, although that's not a requirement to be good. Uh, you know, they, they participate in community events. Good people. Uh, if they would stop and think for a minute, if somebody broke into their house tonight, God forbid, and, you know, injured them or, or severely harmed one of their children, I mean, could they s- seriously say that they love that person? Uh, you know, when 9/11 happened, how many of us could seriously say that we love those people that drove the airplanes into the building? Uh, or even a more down-to-earth case, you know, you're driving down the road with five kids in the car going to a soccer game or something, and some idiot goes flying by you, cuts you off, and y- you have to steer off the road to prevent an accident. You know, all these kids could've been hurt because of one guy who's in a hurry. I mean, can you really say that you, you love the person that was driving that vehicle when something like that happens? I think most people would have to admit that they don't. And, uh, so they're not following Christ's instruction to love everyone, uh, e- including your enemies, including those who persecute you, including those who drive you off the road. I would include those in the ones that persecute you, uh. Yeah. So I think that's what we're mi- I think that's what we're missing. I think that's, you know, that's why it's only a few, because th- they find that small gate to eternal life. Because even though we're doing a lot of things right, we're not following what Christ taught us to do. You know, uh, one, one of his last messages to the apostles was, "Just love each other." You know, just, just that's what he, that's what God wants. To love each other, take care of each other. And I think most of us aren't doing that, and, uh, most and all of us probably aren't doing it enough. But, but, uh, that's, that's, you know, what we need to get much better at. And that's what it takes a lifetime to get to. One great example, uh, well, two great examples. I don't know if you recall, but a number of years back there was a shooter that went into a, uh, a, um, Bible study group or a prayer group in the church in the evening, and he sat there for a while and then he took out a gun and I think he killed nine people. Uh, two days later on the TV national news, the people in that congregation forgave him. I mean, that's, to me that's, yeah, that's Christian love. I mean, to be able to do that. Uh, he just killed senselessly nine people, friends of yours that you knew, but that they were able to forgive him that quickly. Those people understood what God wants from us. Uh, another example is, uh, you know, Charlie Kirk was killed a year or so ago. It wasn't quite as quickly, it was a few weeks later, but his wife gets up there in front of thousands of people and forgives the shooter. I don't know how many of us, you know, normal people would do that or could do it. I mean, it might take a lot longer to get there, but I think that's what we all need to focus on. We all need to focus on, you know, loving everyone, taking care of everyone we can, helping everyone we can, and trust that God's gonna take care of us when we need, when we need some assistance. Yeah, I remember my neighbor, his son had been murdered, and it took him years, but eventually he, he forgave the murderer, and it was one of the most difficult, uh, tests of his faith. And- Mm-hmm ... you know, it's so interesting, and maybe God's trying to give me a message because you're the second guest I, I've had this week, and, uh, back-to-back episodes on faith and forgiveness because he was sharing about his faith journey was that he had gotten scammed out of $15,000, uh, through, like, identity fraud. And, you know, he just wanted vengeance. He just wanted to... As he said, he was so angry and hateful, he just wanted to kill these people. Mm-hmm. And his mom offered him Bible quotes that said, "Bless your enemy. If they're hungry, feed them. If they're thirsty, give them something to drink." And it's like, "Reaping hot coals on their head, pray for them." And, uh, of course his reaction as a young, angry guy was like, "Mom, what are you talking about? This is the terrible advice." And but a little while later he came back to her and said, "How do I do it?" And she said, "Just pray with a sincere heart." And he said when he prayed for them f- to have empathy and to convert to a good life and not to be struck down, you know, he said the hatred just lifted out of his heart. And, and later on, the people got a- arrested and, and justice was served. You know, God will hold everyone accountable, maybe not in our time and in the way we want, but- You know, forgiveness and accountability don't have to exist separately. You can still have both at the same time. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I think it is so important, and I, you know, it- you, you talk about 9/11, and actually I was talking about that the other day because I come from the generation where people are... You know, it's a lot of, "It was an inside job. America did it." Or people are saying, "No, it was the Middle East," and this and that. And I s- And this is what I said- Mm-hmm ... to the people I was talking with on 9/11. I said, "Regardless of who did it, it came from deceitful and wicked hearts, and we need to pray for them. We need to pray for the people who contributed to that, whether they were American or Middle Eastern. We need to pray that the people thinking of doing sl- stuff like that again in the future, that they would see the truth and the light." And even when it comes to politics, uh, the number one thing I'll say when people try to talk politics about me, uh, the question is, "Did you vote?" Of course, that's important, but I, I like to say, "Did you pray? Do you pray for your political leaders?" We know in accordance to the Book of Daniel and other supporting verses of scripture that there are spiritual forces behind the political leaders in politics, in the, in the kingdoms and nations, right? That didn't just go away. There are dark principalities. And, and I could tell you in America there's definitely that. You know? Um, it may really stem in California. But there's plenty of states- ... and political leaders that have stuff going on, right? And all around the world. And we need to pray more than anything. Uh, it's not about, you know, do you hate or love the president. Uh, regardless, we're called to pray for our leaders. And not just political, you know, big people like the president, but at your job, in your family, at your schools. And so I really encourage people to have more forgiveness and prayer in their, in their life. And like you said, uh, it is a very few amount of people. And so, you know, you kind of dove into signs to help spread the message to more people. We talked about how the scientific intersection conversation reaches a different audience than people who are more history-focused or more focused on... Some people are more New Testament. Some people, maybe myself, are Old Testament enthusiasts. We connect different. We have different interests, and it's about that hyper-focus. So you decided to say, "Hey, I really want the intersection of science and faith. It's a great form of, you know, evangelism." So how has that journey been? Obviously, you mentioned a book earlier on that I, I wanna share here, but, um, what have you found? Have you found that people respond better to it? And, and, like, what is the conversation faith and, and all that kinda looking like? I start the book with an example. I ask people to draw a tree. You know, just, just draw a tree. Take a minute before you keep reading and draw a tree. And then, you know, when they start reading again, I s- I say, "Well, unless you're an extremely unusual person, you only drew half the tree. You only drew the part that was above ground that you see every day. You probably didn't draw the entire root system, which is the foundation which is necessary for the tree to even be there." And then I take that message, I call that shallow thinking, and I take that message into the sciences, and what we know about astronomy, what we know about the universe, what we know about, uh, biological process, the complexity of the human body, the, the incredible information that's built into... that's programmed into DNA. I mean, I go into all these things that people take for granted every day. Granted, grant, you wake up, you're healthy. Nobody thinks about the systems in their body, the organs, you know, the, uh, the, the cells, the blood vessels. Uh, they just do what they do. You know, we live our lives on this everyday plane of what we can see and what we can hear and feel. But what's really going on, what science, this is where science informs us, what science knows that inside your body there are systems, your nervous system, your skeleton system, cardiovascular system. Uh, and each of those systems are made of organs, and those organs are made out of trillions of cells, and inside every one of those cells, there's an amazing complexity of molecular activity going on. Uh, so yeah, I try to get people to look past the surface and understand what science has taught us. Science, uh, Albert Einstein, E equals MC squared. I mean, what that says is that every single particle of matter is actually a little packet of energy, of an enormous amount of energy, and his theory was proven when we started dropping a couple bombs during World War II. His theory is demonstrated every day in nuclear power plants all around the world. I mean, we're converting a small amount of the fuel that's in there from matter to energy. Uh, so th- those are things people just don't think about. But when you get down to that level and you understand that the entire universe Science has discovered the laws of physics, but those laws have to be enforced. Something is enforcing those laws of physics across at least two trillion galaxies for billions of years, uh, you know, according to science. And, uh, when you get people thinking at that level, it really kind of opens their eyes. You know, i- in the book, I don't use technical terms. I, I talked about it the way you and I are talking right now, conversational terms. But yeah, the reaction has been kind of en- enlightening. I mean, people just don't think about that stuff, and they say they believe in science, but they don't know that science says God is real. I mean, that, that's what we've learned through science, through studying, you know, the underlying, uh, roots of what we see every day. So yeah, I think the reaction from people, uh, has been what I wanted. It's been, you know, fact that they, they confessed that they never thought of this stuff. They assumed the Big Bang happened, they assumed evolution created life, and they don't really even think about the truth, which, which is, uh, which is what I cover there. So it's been received very well. But, you know, back to my point about reading Matthew 7:13-14, when I realized that very few of us are doing the right thing, the first group that I thought was almost hopeless was these people who don't believe in God. I mean, they've built a wall between themselves and God, and, and what chance do they have of finding that narrow path if they don't even understand the presence of God? So I wanted to do something to help that group, and that's where I put these scientific cases together. You know, with... While they were building their wall, God was building a bridge over the wall, and that bridge was made out of scientific facts which they, they believe. But if you follow those facts, you know, to the other side, you understand that, that God is real, and He's here and He's present. In fact, you can see what He's doing. Uh, once you get to that side- God is present ... yeah, once you get to that side of the wall, uh, now it comes to the teachings of Christ and what do we... We know God's real, we know Christ is His Son, we have His words. How can we live accordingly? And, and all the examples you gave about people who are hatred, uh, or, you know, as I said, fear, anything like that, that's examples when we are not living according to the teachings of Christ. And, and it takes a lifetime to, uh, takes a lifetime to really internalize that and, and behave properly. It's not easy, you know I've been very fortunate. You know, for me, uh, when I used to drive home from work, just seeing the sunset and, and the beauty of the sky and the trees and everything, that was enough to convince me. But I think about, you know, I used to watch, and I, I still do sometimes, these deep sea journey, you know, TV series, and some of the creatures down there, the complexities of them and the, and the way they live up, as you mentioned, down to the microscopic degree. I mean, it is so mind-blowing. And for me, you know, kind of what we're talking about, it reminds me very much of the historical account of Job. I, I love that part of the Bible. It's, uh, one that a lot of people, you know, relate to. They say, "Woe is Job. Woe is me." You know, I'm just like him. And, you know, during that conversation, it's one of my favorite conversations in the Bible where God says, "All right, Job, brace yourself like a man, for I shall now ask you all these things." And he asks him all these questions. And what is he asking? About the workings of the universe. He's doing what you and I are doing, which is saying, "Let's take a step back and actually look deeper," not the shallow surface view of, you know, good is good and bad is bad. He goes, "Let's take back." And he goes, "Can you tell me about this and that and this and that?" And, and he was... Even God is doing a 30,000-foot overview to Job about, look at all these things in the universe. Imagine he had said, "Job, can you tell me about how the anglerfish has bioluminescence in its, you know, its, its trap thing? And, and what about, you know, this grasshopper's jumping ability?" Like, if you actually looked... And I heard a s- really silly atheist argument once that was like, "Well, if God is real, he must be a bug collector 'cause there's so many different types of beetles." For me, the absolute diversity we have of species, of colors, of, of varieties, of, of all these animals and plants, that only speaks all the more to a creator for me, that things have such a beautiful diversity and The mo- A- And we only discover more and more science to, to further connect to the Bible. And, and that goes compounded with historical artifacts and archeology finds, you know, and, and scientific testing on them, and I think it's beautiful. I think really there's this, this stereotype that if you're scientific or logical or smart that you have to be an atheist. It's really just a- Yeah ... deeply grounded, um, stereotype that has been going on. And, and so I love seeing these intersections of science and faith. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I saw the post the other day about the, you know, the world's highest IQ holder says there is God, 100%. You know, it's beautiful, and I, I hate that we have tried to continually perpetuate the stereotype that, you know, you can't be smart and, and scientific and logical and also know God. If anything, God is the one who gives us that gift. And, uh, in accordance to Peter, you know, or what, what they say in, in that book, that we are to use the gifts that God has given us to serve others. You know, I love that you talk about giving. Uh, and giving d- isn't just about money. It's about time and your service, what you can do for one another, and I, I think that's beautiful. And I don't know. I'm also simple. Every time I- I'm in an airplane, I'm just... my mind is just blown. I think about what's the most complicated thing an animal could make. Think about we just take for granted so much technology that we have, and we don't even know how it works. Most people couldn't tell you how this microphone is glowing and, and how it captures the sound and puts it in the computer. We just take it for granted. And I think when we think about the absolute complexity of these things, of having cars, of having buildings, of flying in airplanes, and you take that complexity and you compare it and contrast it to the complexity of the animal kingdom when it comes to creation. You know, it really for me says we are made in the image of the Creator, right? And it's not a thing to put us over animals or to be egotistical, but it... for me, it's really humbling to, to think about how much proof just this, these, these posters behind me have that, that there is a God. But, you know, I think there's also just a close-mindedness, you know, uh, as, as Yeshua said, as Isaiah predicted, you know, uh, uh, about the Messiah, but also just about faith in general. There are gonna be people who hear but do not listen, who see but don't see. You know? Like, it's, it's... You can only tell people so much. But I hope that in hearing this conversation, in hearing your book, it is a great stepping stone. And I'd love for you to share the name of it again as well as where people can get it. I'm gonna have the link for it in the description below for people to check out. But I, I think it's great. As you mentioned, you and I were talking before we recorded, this isn't just a book for non-believers. This is for the believers, for you to not just strengthen your faith but to be able to share it with others. Right. Yeah. The name of the book is The Bridge from Science to God. Uh, it's available Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kindle, audiobook. I mean, it, it's basically out there wherever you would, you know, often buy books. Uh, and the, the latter part of the latter half talking about the faith, I mean, really that's something that everybody needs to know, whether they learn it by reading my book or learn it through something else. But we all need to know that we, we need to be better. You know, we're not following the teachings of Christ even though we think we are. Um, very few people in the world are actually loving everyone all the time. It, it just... So, you know, yeah. And I- it's not just... I also give some examples. I don't know how much time we have left, but I give examples in the book how I overcame my, uh, instinctive desire to hate certain groups of people, your political enemies, and stuff like that that you see on TV. Uh, there's... It was a big challenge, a- and I found a way, and it's a way that everybody could use. So I have some suggestions like that in there when you encounter the same barriers that I encountered, it might help you to get past them. Amen to that. And then I always ask any faith-based guest if you could please share from the heart a Bible quote. I know you shared Matthew quite a bit, but if you have a different Bible quote that's kinda just speaking to you right now to share, I would love for you to share that with us. Well, my, my favorite prayer is in Psalm Um, I wanna say 1- 51. Uh, that might not be the right number. But David wrote, "Create in me, dear God, a clean heart, and restore- Mm your right ways within me." I mean, that's something that I need to be reminded of every day many times because, you know, you have these urges. You have these urge- you have selfish urges. You have angry urges, fearful urges, but that's not the right way to be. That's not right- the right way to think. What we want is for God to give us a clean heart, one that knows Him, loves Him, and behaves accordingly. So yeah, that's, uh... Do you know which Psalm that is? Uh, I, I'm sorry, I don't remember, but that, but that's the direct quote. Please create in me, dear God, a clean heart, and restore your right ways within me. So that- Amen ... that's, um, that's a daily reminder. Yeah, and it is something we need to do daily, and that's why I always say pray daily, read daily. You know, have those reminders and, and talk to people. And yeah, the nu- the number slips me as well, but you know, the quote is more important than the number. You know? I mean- No, definitely ... I definitely know where it comes from, but at the end of the day, uh, we know it comes from the Bible and, you know, we can always go look it up. But I think it's so important to have the word, you know, memorized, to meditate on it daily, you know, both day and night, and to keep it hidden in our hearts like a sword. So really important. I, I, I think that's important. You know, we talked about in Ezekiel as well, "I will take from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh." You know, not to be mistaken with the flesh that is always spoken against in, you know, the Bible, but the heart of flesh, the, the care and compassion in our heart, the one that loves, the one that forgives, the one that is clean and pure. And I think that is a daily practice we have to do. And so I, I highly encourage everyone, pray when you wake up and before you go to bed. And, and all, all throughout the day in between, but at least e- every morning practice gratitude, and every evening practice repentance. I think that's really important. And so thank you for that, that message. And I hope that this book will help be a guide for people, as well as this conversation we had today, for people to pursue wanting to have a clean heart. And if you're not sure where you stand right now, please read this book, read the Bible, and then you can find out for sure, and then you can make the decisions you need to. Uh, as you said, there, there's two paths in life, and we wanna get as many people as we can on that narrow one and, and get to the place, uh, that, uh, the eternal kingdom that is coming. And it is coming. So Mr. Carlin, thank you so much for what you're doing to help other people and to, for dedicating and, and serving others through this way. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you and your audience. And you know, I wish everybody, you know, great success in life spiritually.
