Veteran & Podcaster Louis Famiglietti On Serving 21 Years, Surviving Cancer, & Navigating Relationships

<p><!--block-->Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and today's guest is very special. I brought him on the show because I'm hoping to get free booze from him in the future. So this interview was a part of that journey, and I only say that in joking. But today's guest, I met him at Military Creator Con. If you're not sure what that is, check it out, militarycreatorcon.com. It was an amazing conference. This year was the first year. Got to meet a lot of amazing service members and their loved ones and supporting members and different nonprofits and companies. Basically, all veterans and active duty creatives trying to make great things, trying to have impact in the civilian world post-service. So it was amazing. Today's guest was one of those gentlemen that I met and we talked throughout the whole thing and you know, we had a couple great conversations, and he even got to attend me speaking on stage. So super grateful for his support and excited to talk a little bit about all the stuff he learned. A fellow podcaster, a veteran, and just a great guy. And he might as well be called Mr. Whiskey as well from what he plans to be doing, which we'll get into that. So Louis Famiglietti, so great to have you here, and I'd love for you to just tell us a little bit about yourself and then go into kind of why you joined the military. S- the big question we always wanna know, why did you join? When did you join? And we'll get into it from there. Awesome. Mr. Whiskey, thank you so much for having me. I, I really appreciate your time. It's a, a testament to how good Military Creator Con is and how exciting it is that here we are following up, like actually following up and, and having a podcast, and I'm so appreciative. So thank you very much. It was great meeting you. And so I'm a Air Force retiree, spent 21 years in the Air Force. Everyone knows the best career field in the Air Force is aircraft weapons systems. So I was a weapons troop. And when I got out, I went to work for a Fortune 500 aerospace industry. I was pretty proud of myself. I did exactly what I wanted to do. And after a couple years, I started to get a itch, like something didn't feel right. I decided I was going to start a podcast. I had no idea about podcasting, and the first person I met was James VP, James Van Prooyen, who him and his wife Mara were the ones who built Military Creator Con. And it was one of those happy accidents that James said, "Hey, I can help you get set up with a podcast." And so we tried that, and I have a couple different ideas for what I want my podcast to be. The, it's changed a couple times, I think, and the more podcasters I talk to, the more I see that that's normal. And so now we're going to try and do, me and my co-hosts are gonna tour the country, go to different distilleries, and talk to people. I wanna know the stories behind. Like you said, you wanna know why I joined the military. I wanna know why, 'cause that is a great question, and it's usually one of those questions we always ask first, "Why'd you join?" I wanna know. I've learned a couple things about the distilling industry. You're not doing it for the fame and glory, and you're not doing it for the money, and you're not doing it 'cause it's easy. So if it's, if it's hard work, it doesn't pay a lot, and you're not gonna get famous, then why are you doing it? It sounds like the military. Exactly, right? Like, yeah. So maybe that's that's just the same question asked to a different audience really is, is what it comes down to. So that's what I'm trying to do, and I appreciate you helping me kinda get my feet under me and accumulate some sorta traction and momentum. Yes, sir. And so you talked about 21 years in the Air Force. We know it takes 20 years to retire, so you did one extra year. Now, for those who don't understand, in the Air Force you don't actually work, right? That's why they call it the Chair Force. And so- Correct. Yeah ... you had to do at least one year of actual service before you left, so that's why you did the 21 years, correct? Yeah. I felt like I kinda skated for 20 years. I g- at least give you an extra year. Right. Right. No, that is, that is amazing that you did 21 years. Like I said, it's always so mind-blowing to meet people who gave their whole life to the service. We met, I met a gentleman at Military Creator Con who actually was about to retire almost 30 years, you know? Mm-hmm. And I think, I think I had someone on the podcast who was over 34 years, who would've done like 45 years. He got into political nonsense, and unfortunately they kind of forced him to retire or it was gonna be a headache, so, it's a shame. But to think over 30 years, I mean, that just blows my mind, you know? That's, that's a whole lifetime. So of course we'll get into the question of why did you stay in that long, but we gotta go back first to why did you join and when did you join? I joined I actually enlisted, like delayed entry, the December of my senior year in high school. I went to a, a small Catholic high school in Connecticut, and I was scheduled, I graduated 123 out of 125 kids. And I, there was probably only- 10 to 15 people who scored higher on their SATs than me, and it came down to I was the one kid that everyone always said, "Oh, you have so much potential, but you're not doing the work. You're not doing..." I hated school. College wasn't for me. So Connecticut in the mid-'90s was not, it wasn't a booming economy. It was a tough place to be, and I understood. I kinda had two paths in front of me. My father said, "You're, at 18, you're, you're leaving or you're working hard. You're doing something." So he had a, a job c- in construction lined up for me, or he'd promised that he would pay for my CDL. He was a truck driver. He said, "I'll, I'll pay for your CDL, and I'll get you your first job or at least your first interview." And my mother said, "No, I'm not gonna be, I'm not gonna raise another truck driver." And so my best friend one day, and this is, this is literally how it happened, man. My best friend comes to school. He's like, "Hey, I'm gonna be out tomorrow." "Why?" "I'm joining the Navy." "Well, crap, when did that happen?" "Yeah, I talked to the recruiter, and we're, I'm going up to Massachusetts to do the physical and stuff. I'm gonna join the Navy." Sure enough, the next day he was out of school. On Monday, I said, "Hey, how was your weekend?" "Yeah, I, I'm in. I'm, I joined the Navy." Ah, man, and this was, you know, I had an uncle in the Army in World War II, but none of my siblings had joined, and it, it wasn't really even on the radar. But I did, I told my guidance counselor I was gonna apply to the Air Force Academy, and he laughed at me. And he said, "I, I don't think you understand how the service academies work. You'd be lucky to get into the community college, let alone the service academy." So I said, "Well, maybe you're right. I'm not going to college. I don't wanna go to college. Nick just joined the Navy. Let me go talk." So he brought me down to the Navy recruiter, and I actually just told this story the other day. We went to a, the Navy recruiter had a barbecue for the DEP program. The DEP program was the de- Delayed Entry Program. So I go to this, the recruiter's house. He's got a nice barbecue. There's a bunch of sailors around, and they start talking stories about how long they'd each been on, on the ship for the longest. And, you know, "Oh, I, I was out for six months." "I was out for eight months." And some dude had been out for, like, 12 months or 14 months. And at the end of the barbecue, the recruiter was like, "Hey, man, you gonna come down Monday and we'll talk?" I said, "No. No, sir. I'm, I'm done with the Navy. I'm not gonna be on a ship for 14 months or 12 months." He said, "Okay. Well, you come talk to me, and we'll see, but you're always welcome." In the meantime, I saw the Air Force recruiter, and he had-- This is when the Aim High marketing campaign was on, and when I sat down in front of the Air Force recruiter, he had like one of those 12-foot F-16s sitting behind him. Like, they took up the whole wall, and it was flying through, and it had bombs and missiles hanging on it. And I said, "Hey, if I join the Air Force, can I work on that?" He was like, "Yep." And that was it. And then, of course, I found out the Air Force had six-week basic training, and the Navy had eight, the Army had 10, and the Marines had 12. I was like, "Well, that kinda sealed the deal." Right. You know, it's funny because a lot of people who join the Navy, when we ask them like, "Hey, why did you join the Navy?" Their answer was, "Because the Air Force recruiting office was closed." You know? Mm-hmm. Like, it was always closed for lunch or a day off, and I'm actually the opposite of you in the sense that I originally was going Air Force. The day before I shipped out, they changed my job on me. You know, in Army terms, MOS. In Navy terms- Yeah ... rate, rate. What I was gonna do was photojournalism. That's what recruiter and I had talked about, had worked on for quite a while. And then he's like, "Actually no. No, no, no. You're gonna be a cryptolinguist, and you're gonna learn another language, and you're gonna spend-" Wow sometimes up to 14 hours in a plane translating a foreign language." And it was kinda like, your, your 14 months, I heard 14 hours in a plane. I'd never been in a plane in my life at that time. Boot camp was the first time I ever flew. So I was like- Me too ... "I'm not spending 14 hours in a plane-" Yeah. No- translating" ... that sounds awful. Right. And at the time, I didn't wanna travel, learn another language. Now I regret it. Now I'm like, man, if I could've learned-- But they probably didn't even have the languages I wanted, Greek, Hebrew, or you know, Japanese. They maybe had Aramaic, which or Arabic, so it's adjacent enough, but still. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, man, you had me with the photojournalism and all this and that, and then boom, you try to change my job on me the day before I shipped out to, to MEPS to finalize and sign the contract. He should've told me after. I should've signed the paperwork and then he was like, "Oh, actually, you're a cryptolinguist." 'Cause they-- I've seen that before. I've seen plenty of- Yeah ... terrible recruitment stuff, and especially like, "Oh, join the Navy. Just be a boatswain's mate, and then you can cross rate to Navy SEAL or to, you know, deep-sea diver, whatever you want after, like, two years of boatswaining." And s- I, I've seen it not happen, so yeah, the Air Force- Yeah and the Navy so were, were, were opposites. You know, I was- Yeah ... going Air Force, and you know, looking back, I was like, man, sometimes I, I wish I had gone Air Force, and it, it is what it is, you know. And then Navy, like you said Navy had it, I think, the worst during COVID because some of those ships got stuck out to sea for 13 months at a time or longer- Oh, goddamn because COVID hit them on the end of their deployment. Yeah. They were running out of food and all that stuff, so. And we've heard- No, that's awful ... I've had-- I've actually interviewed people. I had a gentleman I interviewed Submariner. They're underway. They're about to come back to the surface. "Oh, we've been extended for two weeks." Well, they ran out of food, and he said this is his truth that he shared on the show. They had nothing to eat but lima beans for every meal for two weeks. Oh my God. I know. I don't even know if I would eat lima beans on a regular day or in an emergency situation, let alone... But he said, "Don't worry. The chef kept morale up by making it look like different things." So they had lima bean steak, they had lima bean mashed potatoes, they had lima bean pancakes. Oh my God. Right. So, so I talked about- I hope that dude got extra medal, man. Right. You gotta get a- Yeah ... you gotta get some kinda chest candy for that. Yeah. Heck yeah. But yeah, so you talk about... I, I, I gotta clarify. Is it, is it Groton, Connecticut? Yes. That, so w- that, one of my... I loved, I loved the military, and I, I... It's silly that I hadn't strongly considered it, because growing up, my dad used to take me. I didn't want anything crazy, so for a birthday one year they took me to the Coast Guard Academy, and we got to go out and see the, the, the Eagle, their flagship. We went to the submarine base. We couldn't go on. Well, it's funny. I f- years later I would end up getting my t- well, my wisdom teeth removed on Groton Sub Base, but that was just a happy accident. That's funny. Yeah. So but he would take me down. We'd go to, to the water down by electric boat, and I would see the submarines from across the river. And s- we'd go to small airports, and I would watch a- like, airplanes take off. I was just enamored with the, with the Navy ships and planes. So i- in hindsight, like, all I wanted to do, I, I hope I didn't... I probably portrayed myself as kind of a underachiever who just needed a way out. I wanted to work on airplanes, and that's what it came down to, and that's why the Navy was still very much on the... Even the Marines too. The only one I'd kinda ruled out was Army, 'cause my uncle was Army and he, he honestly told me di- very directly, "Do not join the Army." But I wanted to work on airplanes, and the Air Force offered probably the easiest transition to that point. But it, like, to your story, yeah, being a linguist is pretty awesome. Like, that would be pretty cool. But hindsight, like, who knows? Like, you, you can't, we can't go back and judge. Yeah, that would've been pretty neat. But you, you had the options of f- I, I would think the two academically hardest schools in the military. You, Air Force is gonna send you to linguist, which is difficult. Oh, yeah. And then you end up going through the nuke school, which is the hardest. I think I've read that it is the hardest academically training in the military, that the military offers. It is. It has a very high suicide rate. We had about one to three attempts a month, and then we had, according to a nuclear operator I met at at Military Creator Con, he actually dropped out of the nuclear program, but he said it was about an 86% failure rate. You know, they describe it as drinking water from a fire hose. So if you've ever done that, you know what it's like. If you haven't done it, don't do it. You know? Yeah. You didn't hear that on this show. I didn't tell you to go do that. But essentially it's, you know, like five years of college crammed into a year and a half, maybe less, maybe more, depending on your cycle, and it's a lot. And when people hear that, it's, it's not like regular college where, I mean, some of these college kids go to class like twice a week for an hour each. It's ridiculous, honestly, for how much money they spend and how much money their professors make. Meanwhile, our military instructors, the one side I will say is the nuclear instructors aren't paid enough because they're teaching, you know, six to nine hours a day, Monday through Friday, you know, constant complicated material. It i- is very different from, from the college life. And then you've got for the students mandatory study hours for the most part, unless you're smart enough to have no study hours each day of the week pretty much with the exception of I think Friday and Saturday. But depending how many hours you need for the week, you're coming in on Friday and Saturday. So I mean, and everyone had to come in, I, I believe it was at least on Saturday or Sunday. I don't remember. It's been a while. But- Yeah ... you know, like your, your weekend was dedicated to studying as well. And I mean, talking about, I mean, six to nine hours straight. You'd have five-minute breaks, 10-minute breaks in between different subjects, sometimes the same subject for a long time. So it, it is a lot more complicated than people think. It's changed a lot too. Some of the nuclear operators before me had death by PowerPoint. I had interactive instructors, which were m- much more efficient than just a PowerPoint. At one point, they, you know, it was just quite the program. And, and that failure rate, I mean, I don't know if 86% is an accurate number, but I'll tell you, out of all the people I started with, I was one of maybe five people who made it through the whole program out of- Wow you know, I knew so many people who started with us, and so many people either attempted suicide, did commit suicide- Mm ... just academically failed out and cross-rated, or most of them got separated from the military for mental health. Now there is- Yeah ... what they call sat out, which is some of them did fake or leverage mental illness effects to get out on purpose. Like I know, I know a group, unfortunately, one of the guys was having difficulties. He told, shared a medical experience and got out, and then- All five of his roommates did the same exact thing and got out at the same time. So six nukes all together living in a house all got out for the same, quote you know, mental health reasons after the first one got out. So unfortunately- Yeah ... a lot of people leveraged it. And one of the thing we've, we've talked about is it's hard to filter through truth and reality and, and lies and deception when it comes to mental health. It's very difficult to prove it. You know, they have a medical team set up to provide it, but at the end of the day, it's-- the worst-case scenario is you don't believe someone and then they commit suicide, now that's on you. Yeah. Yeah. So it is a very difficult situation on that end. But the Nuke school in general, difficult material. I was actually much like you where you know, I didn't work very hard in school. A- in fact, all nukes never worked hard in school prior. Most of them, maybe a small-- maybe like 1% of them studied hard and had to work hard to get grades. The rest of us, we got a speech when we got to Nuke school. All of y'all are just naturally smart. You probably skint by and got perfect grades just hanging out in class and not really paying attention. You just knew how to do that stuff. This school is not that place. No. And most of us didn't listen to it. We said, "Ugh, what are you talking about, Chief, you crusty old bag?" You know? Maybe, maybe for you, Chief, not for us. And that's why so many people failed, because they didn't adjust. For me- Yeah ... I, I had to adjust. I had to spend hours making notes, color-coded notes, and studying. Like, it was not you could just show up and absorb the stuff. Some people still could do that, but majority of us, like you had to study and learn. Yeah. And so it, it was not what people thought it was. And so to go back, though, the reason I brought up the specificity of Groton in Connecticut is because I've never met a military member from Connecticut who wasn't from Groton. So it's just like everyone's always from Groton. We call it in the Navy Rot in Groton, and by we, I mean just a majority of the people I know that were stationed there. So they didn't like it because if you're trying to be a bar party kind of person, it sucks. If you're a family guy, maybe it's okay. But that, that was kind of the complaint, was always- Yeah there's nothing to do. And every sailor I knew who requested to be stationed there was born there. So I just- Yeah ... when you said Connecticut, I was like, "I guarantee this guy's from Groton," and, and, and you proved me right. So I've, I've yet to meet someone from Connecticut who's not from Groton. Oh, sh... Okay. Listen, I, I hate to correct, but I, I'd be remiss if... I actually was born in Waterbury, Connecticut, which is not a great spot. And I only say that because I, I, I, I feel like the Waterbury army would, would be upset if, if they didn't hear their name called. But Rot in Groton, I don't- I'm not gonna say it doesn't deserve that Not my opinion, by the way. I just wanted full disclosure No, I, I get it. I always wondered what it would be like to be stationed in Connecticut, because that... Like, I was from there, so yeah, it's, it's like home. And home is different. Home is home to you. It's just the way it is. But then- Right ... when you join the military and you go to another spot, it always has that vibe, no matter whether you like it or hate it. It's like, "Well, I'm a visitor here." And so I wondered, ah, I wonder what people think about Connecticut. Because, well, especially too when I joined the Air Force, those casinos weren't there yet. Mm. And not that they are the end-all be-all of Connecticut entertainment, but they are pretty cool. So it w- Like the coastline of Connecticut is, like, a couple beaches and fishing, you know? The rest of it was, like, New Haven, you know? Kinda- And there's farmland, to people's shock. They don't realize that. Yeah. There's, there's some farmland over there. 'Cause I, I knew a sailor who was born on, on a farm in Connecticut. And I mean, I grew up in the tri-state area, but I didn't- Yeah ... even know that myself, so I was like, "Huh." Yeah. But I've also driven through South New Jersey and Delaware, and it's just like the country. So people don't realize. It's just acres of farm, and you're like, "Where am I?" You, you think you're in Virginia the whole time. Yeah. You're like, "I didn't get to Maryland yet?" It's like, "No, buddy. You're in, you're in Delaware." My recruiter t- My first base tour was to McGuire, and he said, "We're going to McGuire Air Force Base in New Jersey." And I immediately pictured, you know, like, Newark. And I was like, "Oh, God, that'd be terrible to be stationed in McGuire," you know? And we're driving. We get off the highway, and I, I don't know. It, it was just a couple hours from Connecticut. Not, not a very long drive. And we're going through corn fields, and corn fields- Right ... and co- And all of a sudden we pop out at the gate of McGuire, and I was like, "This is New Jersey?" And you know, my recruiter's like, "Yeah. New Jersey's not that bad." And I guess I just never... We didn't... When we did, like, short vacations and stuff, we went north to Maine and Massachusetts. We never went... Like, as a truck driver, my father wanted no part of the tri-state area. Right. So we never went south. So I never really explored New Jersey. And I just didn't know that it was green. I pictured, like, The Sopranos version of New Jersey my whole life. Well, it is very gray in the middle. Let me clarify. So the- I flew out of New-- I was born and raised in New Jersey, so when I went to boot camp, I f- well, actually, I flew out of New York. But when I went back on leave the first time, so I went from the South, s- South Carolina to New Jersey. As I flew into Newark, the sky changed to gray. Like, it did change colors, right? There is, like, a gray bubble over central New Jersey. Oh, yeah. But up north where I was raised, it was 1,200-foot mountains in my backyard. It was all- Whoa ... beautiful forest, you know, and I used to hike. There was actually a castle of ruins on top of a 1,200-foot mountain near my backyard that overlooked New York City. So it's beautiful up north in all the mountain region. Yeah. And mount- and a lot of lakes. Lakes and mountains. And then past the, you know, that central part of just the gray and the buildings and the population and the crime, then it's all farmland and beaches. It's, it's very nice. Yeah. But yeah, most people don't realize that. But I will say it is highly polluted, highly taxed, highly traff- I mean, you could go-- When I was in South Carolina, and Georgia as well, and, and, and North Carolina, if you drive after, like, 9:00, 10:00 PM, there's no one on the road. In New Jersey, if, like, any time of the day or night I went to go on the road, it was bumper to bumper. It was like 1:00 AM, and I was like- Yeah ... "Who are all these people on the road?" Yeah. Uh-huh. It's one of the smallest states, but it has one of the largest populations. Yeah. So it's, it's terrible. I, I'm good. I'm good. The snow turns to black after, like, two or three days. Yeah. I hate that. Oh, it's gross. That's sore. And you'll just have, like, you know, four-foot-tall walls of, of black and gray snow. Flying home from Germany- It's not, it's not cookies and cream snow cones, kids. Don't- No. Don't eat that. Yeah. Yeah. Don't eat the plain ones. No, flying home from- Don't eat the chocolate ones. Don't eat the cookies and cream ones. Don't eat snow in general. I would come home from Germany. That, well, that is true nowadays. But I'd fly home from Germany, and sometimes we came into Newark, and I'm like, you can't... Not that Germany doesn't have its share of industrial cities, but y- you go from The beautiful countryside of Germany, and then you land in Newark. And look, it's a airport, it's not... But that Newark Airport is a special kind where you look- I've been to plenty of airports ... you look out the windows and you're like, "Ugh, ugh, this is just awful." No, no, no, 'cause I've, I've been to Atlanta Airport, I think the largest and busiest in, in the country, and they've got it decorated beautifully. You go to Newark, you're just like, "Ugh." Yeah. Like, I've been to some nice airports. There was an airport I went to, it w- I think it was in Ohio. It was just, like, so serene. I was the only person- Yeah ... there for a long time. It was just relaxing. And I've... E- even, like, the one in Norfolk, Virginia, like, they've got some art statues and stuff. I've been to a lot of airports now that I, I travel for work, and no, Newark is, is l- one of the lowest on the list. No offense to them. Yeah. Sorry, Newark. But they probably get more money than any other airport and, you know, you gotta do something with it. Right. I know. But yeah, and then New Jersey, driving through it, all the tolls, you know? I mean, I once spent- Yeah ... like $200 on tolls during COVID era because I didn't have the E-ZPass, and basically if it was a dollar for the E-ZPass, it was $7 cash. And it's like, why am I being punished for cash? But it's just- Yeah ... like society now. If you have modern traditional values, you get punished more, so that's what cash was. Yep. You, I should've told them, "Do you take Bitcoin?" They would've been like, "Oh, it's free for Bitcoin users." That'd be, that'd be awesome. Yeah. Yeah. But so s- just speaking of location and station, where did you first head out to in the first segment of your journey? 'Cause obviously 21 years of service, you've moved around. So my first assignment, you know you fill out your dream sheet and it, y- you don't understand how the system works yet. Well, I had had a conversation, my friend in the Navy who joined the Navy, he introduced me to another gentleman who taught me all about how the Air Force works. And he said, "Well, this is what I do. I work on F-15s, and I'm stationed in North Carolina." And I love North Carolina. I'd gone down there w- with a friend of mine on a college tour to Wake Forest University, which is- Mm ... like, honestly one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen. So I said, "Okay." I, and on my dream sheet, I put North Carolina, and I put a bunch of aircraft stuff for my job. And sure enough, my first assignment was to North Carolina. However, one of my classmates, he had a fiance, and he said, "My fiance, I'm supposed to go to Japan, but my fiance doesn't wanna go." Mm. "Can I swap with you to North Carolina?" And I was like, "Well, I kinda wanna go to North Carolina." So I called my sister, who was a travel agent and very worldly experienced, especially compared to 18-year-old me, and I said, "Hey my classmate wants to swap." He, I have North Carolina, he has Japan. And I remember, like, she, she wouldn't even let me finish a sentence. She was like, "Go to Japan." Sure. Like, "Why on earth, why on earth would you go to North Carolina if you can go to Japan?" And I'm like, "I don't know. I-" "... it's so far away." Oh, thank God I, I listened to my sister. So that's my plug for listen to your older sister. I ended up in Okinawa, Japan, Kadena Air Base. I got there April 28th. Graduated high school April 28th, 1995, arrived in Kadena May 22nd, 1995. I don't know why I remember those dates, but I just do. So May 22nd, 1995, I was assigned into the 44th Fighter Squadron at Okinawa, Japan to work F-15 C and D models. And it was, man, it was one of the coolest three-year runs of, of my life. I thought it was, it was brilliant. For sure. Yeah, North Carolina's definitely nice, but no, I was in the same mindset. I wanted to stay coastal side, and then I ended up, I mean, this is a funny story I don't tell too many people, but the reason I picked th- th- see, I got stuck on the worst aircraft carrier in history that went through the longest refueling overhaul in history, an e- extra two years almost, a mass suicide epidemic, a murder. I mean, it was just like a nightmare ship. Oh my God. Right. We had three suicides in a single week. We had about 13, 15 deaths in a year and a half. One of them was a murder, and so there was just a lot going on, continually replacing leadership with just people who were supposed to make things better. But when you replace leadership with similar leadership, it doesn't really change anything. Plus leadership is only one part of command climate. I mean, that's a conversation on its own, but- Yeah ... th- I only got on that ship because it was supposed to be in Japan. Now, I didn't wanna go to Japan. I had no int- growing up, I thought New Jersey was all America. I was raised in a controlling and abusive household, and- Mm ... you know, and that was xenophobia and racism, and I basically, my, my mental image at that time was every other nation was just, like, a warring dirt pile that hated Americans. And so obviously, once I went into the military, I went to South Carolina, I went to Virginia, I traveled to different states, I met people from other countries, and then I even traveled to other countries post-military, and I was like, oh, wow, everything I, I heard was not true. I mean, there are places like that, don't get me wrong. Yeah. But it's not every country that's not America, you know? Right. Like, there, there is a, a, a, for lack of better words, a tier system of countries in, when it comes to that kind of stuff. And so- For sure ... I, I had picked Japan though because my father always put on my life, like, "Son-" You wanna go to Japan and get a small, beautiful, traditional Asian wife. That's, that's what you need to do in life. That's like the one thing as a man that would, that would make me proud of you. That's the only thing you can do that would make me proud of you." So I was like, "All right." I put this ship to go to Japan to get my Japanese wife, really for my dad. Not that- Interesting I would complain if I had one. Yeah. Trust me. But- Yeah ... you know, that was why I had picked that. And then it ended up my ship didn't even make it to Japan, so I got stuck in Newport News, Virginia, trying to- Oh, no ... live my father's dream. Oh, my God. It's like, shoot, I would've rather just gone to Ha- well, I guess I couldn't go to Hawaii unless I went submarine, but- Yeah I would've gone anywhere else on a aircraft carrier and, and found whatever wife was there. I, I would've gone to- Yeah ... to Oregon or Washigan- Washington for all I care. Yeah. Find a, a, a quiet white girl. I don't know. I just-- anything other than what I went through to still get no Japanese wife. Yeah. So it's it's unfortunate. Well, look, there's a couple life lessons in there. Like, one, I guess you gotta follow your own path, and two, yeah, be prepared to pivot, 'cause Newport News and Japan, wildly different experiences. Yes. In fact, they couldn't be more different. The thing is- Yeah ... it was a hard bargain anyway because it goes, "You can go to this aircraft carrier in Japan, or you can go to Washington State." And I was like I don't know. I've never been to Washington." And my sister went and said it was absolutely gorgeous, but all-- at that time, all I had in my head was, like, it's really rainy and, like, they don't really like people, you know? So, so that was still before I had traveled. Now that I've traveled, I'm like, shoot, I should've just gone and hung out in Washington and, you know- Yeah I just was raised so anti-West Coast 'cause I'm a East Coaster, you know? Like we got, you know- I know ... it's just a little rivalry we have and so, I regret that. I know. Yeah. I should've just gone submarine and gone to Hawaii or something. But, you know, at the time that's what happened, and unfortunately, I didn't get to travel much. I didn't stay in long enough to travel. But that, that's a story on its own. So you went to you mentioned Japan. Yep ... just real quick because I have been there myself as well post service, well, what did you think about it? What did you kinda like about it? Obviously, it's a little different, 1995 compared to I went there like three weeks ago. So obviously- Oh, yeah ... it's a little bit different, but what did you enjoy about it or not enjoy about it? So Okinawa w- is like the Hawaii of the United States. You know, Okinawans prefer to be called Okinawans as opposed to Japanese, although technically, you know, they, they are a part of the nation of Japan. And So I say that 'cause it's island life. It wasn't... Like, all the stuff you see on TV about Japan was typically, like, Tokyo and, you know, you see Mount Fuji and- Right ... and the, the nature up there, or the city life of Tokyo. And then I go to Okinawa, which was a very small, very quiet, peaceful place, except for the US military that was stationed there. But that's- Mm ... a different story. It's a whole nother podcast. That's exactly how I felt where I was. It was like it was so peaceful and quiet, and then there'd be some rowdy American with tattoo sleeves and drinking loud. Yeah. Like, I could al- if I was on the train, I could tell you who was American even if they- Oh they looked- Yeah ... Japanese, 'cause they were so loud, and I just didn't get it. Yeah. It was like boot camp. The reason my division got beat all the time, people just wouldn't stop talking or stop- Yeah ... talking loud, and I've- Yeah ... never understood it. I talk a lot, but, like, if I'm in a situation where like, "Hey, you can't talk..." Like, when I'm on the sub- the, the trains in Japan, you don't hear a peep from me. Yeah. It would be people... And, like, my, my fiancee was giving me a hard time. She's like, "You're the most anti-white white guy I know" when we were in Japan. When I'm in America, I'm like, "Woo, white people." But when I was in Japan- I was just, like, so anti-American. No, I- She was like- Like, they're my least favorite tourist, are Americans. Right. I, you know? And listen, and I... W- we had, there were different nationalities in Germany that caused trouble. But by and large, if there was a fight or an issue, it was Americans. It's like- Yeah it's just the way it is. And Okinawa, we had... I can't even say I was there during a tough stretch, 'cause they had a lot of violence and unfortunately a lot of sexual assault. And you got too many... The demographic is terrible because even on a Air Force base, your biggest demographic is gonna be 18 to 25. They're in the dorms. The ratio of guys to girls, and these are not justifications for anything, I'm just presenting the stats, the... It's a high, high, high percentage of guys to girls. You got Marines there. You have sailors there. There's no Army that I could think of. There's a couple Army stations. So there are Army there. But it's just a, a recipe for disaster. Luckily, the... It's not... It's a little bit bigger. There are things to do to keep people occupied. But we, we had a lot of violence and people out. Gate 2 Street was the big party street. And as far as my experience, I, I am a little... I don't wanna say I'm ashamed, because at 18 this is kind of the natural way of doing things, but I was not ready to experience a different culture. I, I was happy that when I got to Okinawa, 18 you could legally drink. I was... I lived in the dorms. I worked with all my best friends. We worked together. We lived together. It was my first time really experiencing freedom. I was the youngest of seven. Italian. I'm the only boy, so my mother, like, you know, kept me under her thumb. And so here I was, enjoying freedom. I was on a island. It was always warm out. We had just the coolest job in the world. Working on the flight line was just so much fun. And I liked to drink and party, and I was one of the loud Americans. I dated a Japanese girl for a while, and she at least was able to introduce me to a little bit of the culture, for which I was very thankful. My dad would be proud of you. But- You've done more than I have ... it was ... Spent three years in, in Okinawa, and I didn't do anything of cultural significance, or very little. I wasted my time in the bars, and you know, too much of it hungover. And a- again, no regrets. You're 18, and I had a great time. I met s- I'm still good friends with some of the airmen I was stationed with. I loved it, but I did not appreciate Japan for what it was. Well, this is a conversation I just had the other day actually with anywhere in the military, people are so focused on the drinking scene, especially in the Navy, but I think in any branch, Oh, yeah ... because I've heard Army stories, Marine stories. People, like, miss out on so much culture and experience wherever they are. I know I was stationed in near Charleston, South Carolina. I was in, in Goose Reek, and ... It's Goose Creek. We call it Goose Reek because all sewer plants and paper mills. Oh. Plus we just don't- All the paper mills. We just don't like it there in general. But it was a beautiful place, and I know so many sailors who never went to Charleston once. And it's like Charleston's not the greatest place in the world, but the fact that, like, so many people don't take advantage of the opportunities they have. Like so many ... I don't know if you've ever experienced Are you familiar with the MWR? Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so for those listening, if you don't know what that is, basically it's basically this group on the command that puts together little activities and trips to explore the culture and area. It might be kayaking, it might be electric bike tours, whatever it is. And it's a great way for sailors to safely participate in those kinds of events, and to do so with a group of whoever is leading it and whoever joins. So you know, a lot of people make fun of it, but really I, I mean, the sailors that I knew that actually did it loved it. I mean, they got to do some great events for relatively good prices in a, in a safe way with And, and it allowed them to meet some people outside of their rate. That is, or outside of their MOS or job, right? Yeah. It allowed you to meet other people that were stationed there. So you know, I think it's such a shame that people are al- ... Because any time I ask someone, like I ask a higher ranking petty officer or chief, "Is so and so a good place for a port call? Is so and so a good place to be stationed?" It was always, "Well- there's nothing there that if you wanna do drinking or clubbing. If you wanna have a family there, it's a good place. But if you wanna go drinking and clubbing, no. Yeah. And it was always drinking and clubbing, drinking and clubbing. I said, "Okay, what about, like, anything else than drinking? What, what about, like, historical stuff, cultural stuff, you know, the, the dining scene, the shopping scene?" But people were like, "That's..." I mean, that m- what you hear from most 18-year-old and 25-year-old young guys, "That's gay. Why would I think about that?" Yeah. Who, who cares? You know? That's kind of their response. Who cares? Yeah. And so it's, it's a shame. I, I guess I'm grateful I did go off, off base. I had some friends who would insist we go off base and check stuff out. So I am grateful for that. But definitely I think so many people join the military, and when, when you're, like, talking to the recruiter, that's what you're asking about, the port calls and the stations. And then you get there- Yeah ... and you're like, "Ugh, I'm just gonna either vegetate and, and rot at home or just go out to the bars and get blackout drunk or get in trouble." So it's- Yeah ... it's just a real shame. And then you talked about- No, it is. Yeah. You talked about Japan. From there, where does your journey continue? So there I, I went to... Talk about flipping the script. I went from F-15 fighters to the B-2 bomber out in Whiteman Air Force Base, Missouri. And I remember when I got that assignment, I was like, "Oh, this is gonna suck. Missouri, like, it sucks." Miserable Missouri. "I'm gonna hate it." Yeah. Miserable. It's, you know, misery. Ha ha ha. It's gonna be terrible. And this dude, a- and it's funny, and I, I don't even... It's, it was important to me at the time, but this... Another, there was a senior airman. I was a A1C. So the senior airman, so he's very wise and experienced, like a E4, right? You know? But when you're an E3, that is wise and experienced. He was like, "Hey, you're going to Whiteman?" I said, "Yeah." He said, "You're gonna love it." And he was, he was Black. And I was like, "Honestly, dude, I thought you of all people would hate it there. I figure it's like country and, like, backwards." Ag- again, I grew up in Connecticut. I'm not justifying my, my, you know, small narrow-mindedness. He was like, "Oh, no. Kansas City is awesome." He said, "It's such a cool place." Well, the, he went on to explain that there was a college 10 miles away. So you're drinking and you're partying. There's plenty to be had. He said, "But the people of Missouri are actually really nice. Like, cowboys are pretty cool people. You're gonna see a lot of beautiful scenery, right? And then Kansas City is just a criminally underrated city as far as having a lot to do." And it's huge. A very, very cool vi- It's huge. Spans two states. It's huge. It's geographically, it's enormous. But there's so much to do, and that's why one of the reasons- My podcast, our first filming line is in Kansas City, 'cause that's where I met my, one of my best friends in the world, is more akin to a brother than a, than a friend. I met Andy Ciocca. I got there the day before he did, and he had a car and I didn't. So we both lived in the dorms, and we got to Missouri and like, "Well, what do we do?" And I had understood... I'd started to understand the error of my ways where when you leave Japan, and like I don't know shit about Japan. Like, I know what the Airmen's Club looks like, and that's probably it. It's like, okay, so I'm gonna do Missouri a little different. And I met Andy. He had a car. He was a cyclist, so he used to like to get on his bike and go explore. Now, I wouldn't follow him on a bike, but he at least, he was like, "Hey, I've been to this cool town. Let's go." Okay, we'd go check it out. And to your point, like maybe we just went to a small town and got lunch or breakfast. We didn't have to go and, you know, interrogate the whole town, but it was better to see something during the day and remember it than only go into a bar at night. Right. That being said, we did, we did party a lot. We had so much fun. We started to meet locals, you know, like I... A bunch of friends that were from k- Missouri, and it was just a really cool experience. Night and day different from Japan. Meeting cowboys, you know, like actual ranchers. Going to a pasture party, which is like, you know, a party out in a field where there is no light pollution, your cellphone doesn't get signal, and it's just you and a bonfire out in the middle of a pasture. It was so much fun. That's nice. It was, it was fun. For like a city kid from Connecticut, that that was my first experience like, oh, this is kinda cool. I like this. And then Kansas City, again, criminally underrated as far as the vibe. It's such a, such a cool pla- It was cool in 1998 when I went, and it's still cool now. Yeah, and I, I got into an argument with a shipmate over the location of Kansas City because for those of y'all who are Godzilla fans, I'm a huge, huge Godzilla fan, and they dropped the Godzilla vs. America series, including Godzilla vs. Kansas City. And- Ah ... my shipmate and I got into an argument about, you know, Missouri versus Kansas, and we got into a whole thing about how it's... He didn't understand that it was across state line technically, 'cause it's, it's- Yeah ... where it lies. And so- Yeah. They, they- We had a huge blowout over that because one of us, which was me, was researched on the matter, and the other was just- Making up whatever he was making up and he wanted to argue with me. Yeah. I'm like, "Look it up." And he's like, "Well, this AI overview said this." I said, "J- l- just look on the first page of Google. It's look at a map. Just look at a physical map. It's over- That's- ... the state line." He's like, "Well, this AI says it's in Missouri." I was like, "Look at the map. Just, just look at a map." When you're- Don't, you don't need to ask AI about it. When you're from there, when you lived there, people will specify. I think always lived on the Missouri side, maybe it is different in the Kansas side, but the default assumption is Kansas City, Missouri. So when it's Kansas City, Kansas, people will say KCK. Mm. To let you know that, oh, it's, it's, it's KCK. It's on the Kansas side. Like, that's a real thing there, like, that people have to deal with all the time. Yeah. It's, it's interesting. KCK. It's interesting- Yeah ... how they designed it that way. You know, you think they would've just been like, "All right. There's a state line here. We should probably just, you know, split it up." 'Cause now what? The city has two double state te- or it's, it just sounds like a nightmare, to be honest, like, to figure that out- Yeah ... you know, government and state government-wise and stuff. And then you get into a feud if you're, you know, you're in charge of one state and the person's in charge of the other state, and you two have to share a city. I mean, that just sounds like a nightmare. Yeah. I'm not sure- That would be my opinion ... all the logistics of it. I just know that, like, right now, I think, if I heard correctly, they're talking about moving the, the Kansas City Chiefs into the Kan- the Kansas City, Kansas side, you know- Mm ... for, like, tax purposes, and people are up in arms about it. They're like, "But it's Missouri." And you're like, "Well, technically it's still Kansas City." But I, you know, that's a personal issue to them, so I'm not gonna poke my nose in it 'cause I don't wanna get th- you know, thumped. But- Right ... it, it was, but it was... I, I remember it was just, like, one quick story about going party, and we went up to Kansas City. There's a, a... It's not a cool... I don't wanna say it's not cool. It's not the same as it was in 1998, but there was a, a area called Westport, which was, like, bars and restaurants and just a cool place if you wanna go meet girls, you wanna go have a few drinks. And so Andy and I went up there. We, we, there was a, a bar called Blaney's, and they had a Blaney's basement, and it was, like, either free or $5 to get in. And so we went in this basement, and there was two bands playing. One of them was, like, literally in a basement, and then the next was playing outside. You go w- walk all the way through the basement, go out to the patio out back. And at the time, I was, like, playing guitar. I was trying to play guitar, and I was, I was doing sound for a band, like, terribly. I was bad at it, but, you know, we all were, so it, it didn't matter. But I'm starting to- I'm watching this band play and I'm like, "They're actually pretty good." And then after a few minutes I'm like, "Actually, they're really good." And they- like their fourth or fifth song I'm like, "These guys are fantastic." And we saw them for like a $5 cover charge. They're playing... They're one of probably 20 bands playing in a, in a, a s- one-mile radius in this n- neighborhood of Kansas City. So I wrote their name down, 'cause at the time I think I had a Motorola flip phone, so it's not like I was Googling them. I went back and looked them up, and they had been on the Grand Ole Opry stage before, and they'd been on tour with Jimmy Buffett. And we saw them for a $5 cover charge- Wow ... in a random basement. Hmm. And I like, th- that's the type of stuff that happened in Kansas City. Like, this dude was... Or I say this dude, the lead singer was fantastic. But this band was insane, and we saw them for five bucks on a random Saturday, a Friday or Saturday night in Kansas City. And that type of stuff happened in KC all the time. Then you had the football, and I saw my first Steelers game there. I saw a ton of baseball games. It was just like- And you're still- Yeah ... a Steelers fan to this day you mentioned, correct? Oh, I'm, I'm, as you can see from my background, I'm, I have a problem. Yeah. From- So that, that's where it started ... since I was a kid. Yeah. No, I, no, from when I was a kid. Oh, really? My childhood. Yeah. Yeah. I was born with this affliction, I think. Oh, I was gonna s- Yeah. That's, that's the way to word it. Yeah, I was curious. I didn't know what team Connecticutians would, would vote for, to be honest. 'Cause like, I, I guess you got the Jets and Giants are close by. Yeah. But I don't know if Connecticut has its own... No. So growing up as a kid, you know, my mom would take me to like JCPenney's to go back to school shopping, and we always had, there were like three clothes racks. There would be the Jets... For football, right? The Jets, the Giants, and the Patriots. And the same for baseball. It'd be the Mets, the Yankees, and the, the Red Sox. Right. And for all the sports it was like that. And so it was al- like, my sister was a Red Sox fan, I was a Yankee fan. I rooted for the Giants growing up because I could watch them on Sunday, you know? I could, I never... It was hard for me to see a Steelers game with, with the way the rules were. I, the only games you could watch in Connecticut were, probably for the same for you pretty much, was the Jets, Giants, and Patriots, and then Monday Night Football, which I couldn't stay up that late. My, I wasn't allowed to stay up for, to watch Monday Night Football. So I, but as the youngest of seven, I got a hand-me-down, I had a lot of hand-me-down clothes, and I got a jersey. It was used, but it was a Steelers jersey. And what I loved about it was when I went to school, I was the only one wearing a Steelers jersey. There'd be people... Nobody really wore- Patriot stuff back in that time. Mm. They, they were not a thing yet. But, I mean, they were, but nobody cared. It was Giants and Jets. But then there's one, one kid wearing a Steelers jersey, so I just thought that was the coolest thing ever. And that was, like, literally grade school. You know, e- elementary school. S- f- third, fourth, s- second grade, I remember wearing that shirt, and that was it. I was hooked. So I know it's a, a side question, but I'm so curious. So you had a Japanese girlfriend, and you and I- Mm ... can talk off mic about some questions I have. But going to Missouri then, talking about the college scene, did you get yourself a Kansas City girl? Well, so my personal life in Kansas City, this is where I faced my first real life obstacle. Mm. Where life stopped to be fun. I had met a girl on a, a software platform called ICQ. It was like the first age of internet dating. Okay. And I was never good at, like, going out to a bar and getting a girl. Like, I- The cold call ... it's just... Yeah, it w- it was not my thing. And so I met this girl online, and, like, man, when she flew down to, to Kansas City, all my friends were like, "Oh my God, she's gonna look like a giant hose beast," and, "She's probably a dude," or, "She's 80 years old." Like, "There's no chance that she's the girl that sent you pictures of her." And lo and behold, she was. And we had a lot of fun. She was awesome. Like, unfortunately, we were not responsible- Mm ... and she ended up getting pregnant. And so I was 21 years old, she was 19, and luckily I had a job, right? I was still a senior airman in the Air Force. I got my girlfriend pregnant. I had an amazing daughter who's 26 years old now, and I love her and I'm very proud of her. But we did not work out. Like, it was too much stress. We did not really... We didn't have a real relationship. We, we used to like to have fun and, and party and go to concerts, and being two responsible parents at 21 and 19, we were not capable of it. So we had gotten married, 'cause I thought that was the right thing to do, and I didn't realize at the time that the military would've taken care of her pregnancy anyway because it was my dependent, but that's neither here nor there. I thought I was doing the, the responsible thing. Right. Then shortly thereafter, I, I started to hit my first- trouble. I'd got out. I didn't know how to- this was my very first failure, like true fail- I, I viewed my divorce as a failure, and it was the first real-life hiccup I had, and I did not handle it well. I ended up in anger management 'cause I was drinking too much. I ended up in anger management 'cause I had a little incident. The anger management therapist, for lack of a better term, was like, "Hey, on your questionnaire..." I, I'm an honest person, so I filled out my questionnaire honestly. And they were like, "You might have, like, some alcohol stuff." And I was, "Yeah, probably. That's, you know, that's my coping mechanism right now." And that dude kinda changed my life, 'cause I had this, this perception of what therapy was, and this was just a ... We were just talking and sitting there chatting, and then started to realize, like, my father had gotten diagnosed with cancer, and then I get married to this girl, and now I'm having a, a baby, and we got divorced, and now I was starting to get financial troubles. And it was like, dang man. He's like, "These things independently are challenging for a 21-year-old," or 22 maybe at the time now. He said, "But you're, you're trying to face them together, and of course then it's, it's a- you know, adding stress at work." So that was, like, the first time I realized, like, life isn't really a game. It's not just drinking and partying and ... There are consequences, you know, and I'm, I'm staring at a, you know, like a little 10-pound crying consequence. And and then I met another girl, and I, I don't wanna ... I can't bash that relationship. It did not work out. We ended up getting married again. I, I was dead set and I wanted to be married apparently. But I'm very thankful, 'cause one, like, we can remain friends now over the years. We subsequently got divorced, but it was by marrying her I was able to kinda get out of Missouri and get to Germany, because she had an assignment to Germany at a base that I never would've been able to get to. So I got an assignment command sponsor. They sent me over there, or a joint whatever they used to call it, joint spouse, and I got assignment to Germany. We did not last very long. It was kind of, you know, it just was. But we didn't have any children, and we were both able to, like, amicably split. Financially speaking, we didn't have to worry about it 'cause she was in the military, I was in the military. So it was kinda like, hey, this didn't work, but you're in Germany, I'm in Germany. Let's enjoy the best out of it. You know, make the most out of it. So, so at that point I'd escaped Missouri. It was a awesome assignment. I did love it. I met lifelong friends there. I had a great time. I had a daughter who's amazing. And now here I am in Germany, again single, but I'd started to realize, like- I'm not good at doing my career and a relationship. I, I don't know, something about me. I can be good in the military, I can be good in a relationship. Somehow I struggle with doing both at the same time. Mm. So the first time I got divorced, I decided to drink and party, and that was gonna be my coping mechanism. The second time I got divorced, I decided I was... The first way did not work. So a friend of mine was like, "Hey, I'm taking a college course on Ramstein. You should come with me. It'll be fun. We'll do it together." And I said, "Yeah, that's probably a healthier way of dealing with my stress, by going to school," adding more stress. But- Right ... and it it was the best, like I, I thank Wayne all the time, 'cause I ended up graduating. Before I left Germany, I graduated with my bachelor's degree, and that kinda helped me. One, it kept me out of the bars, and it pointed me in, on the path that I, I wanted to go. So yeah, then I was in Germany living the, the dream. For sake of tracking the timeline, between your first divorce and then finding your second wife, what was that timeline? Oh, yeah, not long. Like, was that a few days, a few weeks, or was this years? Like- it was like- ... was she helping raise your daughter? No, no. So I got divorced, let's see, probably '99, and then I, I would've met Lori probably the end of '99, 2000, and we got married, like, 2002. So we dated for, like, a year. I met her, like, shortly after, but she o- I think she only met my daughter a couple times, 'cause I, I didn't have custody, so- Oh, okay ... my first wife went back to... She was from Toronto. Her family was from Toronto. So she went back to Toronto and moved in with her parents, and luckily, like, we had that option. You know, my gra- or my ex-in-laws took wonderful care and, you know, w- welcomed her back with open arms and took great care of my daughter. So my daughter Alexis was able to enjoy a relationship with her grandparents and grow up in, you know, a stable, if not, if divided, which is not ideal, but at least she was taken care of. So we were very lucky in that regard. Okay, so you didn't bring her to Germany with you then? No, I did not. No. Okay. She stayed in Canada, and I would... in fact, I did bring her to Germany once on vacation. She came over with my mom. And my sister. So I did get to see her in Germany. We, she was little, but I wanted her to at least experience it, so we kinda waited as long as we could so she'd be as old as she, she could be- Right to hopefully re- remember some of it, and we brought her over on a, on a little trip, but she did not live with me, no. And that, that's the unfortunate part, and this was the sacrifice that we made, is until she was 18 my daughter didn't live with me at all. I was just a long distance father who p- didn't write enough letters, didn't make enough phone calls. We enjoyed our time together, but it was probably my sister Roseanne that took most care of my daughter. She would always invite, like, Alexis down to Connecticut to stay with her, and she was great. Like, my family was real great, and Nancy, my, you know, her my ex, was very good about letting Alexis go and live with my family and experience my family. So we got really lucky. Like, we made the best out of it. But no, Alexis did not actually live with me until she was 18. So from that point onward, did you have to put in a lot of extra work to build that relationship, or was it not until you got out of the military that you were able to really focus on that? Yeah, I, I didn't... my daughter and I have a good relationship. I probably Yeah, I'd... She deserved more of me than I, I gave her. Again, I, I was focused on my career, and I thought I was doing the right thing and, you know, my, my child support were never late, and I s- if money was needed, I sent money, and if, you know, some discipline was needed, I would try and, you know, make a phone call for, you know, as, as much as that works. Right ... but as far as cultivating a real relationship with my daughter, I was not the best. And then so we had the opportunity to move in together when she was 18. Her and her mom got in a fight, like standard girl stuff, you know. She was old enough, she got in a fight with her mom, was like, "I'm gonna move in with Dad," so we, we did. You know, and then we s- we started... Well, it's funny 'cause we're kinda similar. Like, neither one of us is... We're both a little bit emotionally distant, so it's kinda like we have a funny relationship. I mean, I think we have a good relationship, but- Okay ... it's- And did you ever get married again and have more kids, or what's the journey like that? I mean, 'cause so you talk about Germany for a while, which is pretty interesting. And, and actually I was curious how you met that, that wife who got you to Germany, 'cause it sounds like was she at the same base as you or- initially? Yeah, she was a civilian who worked at the, at the Airmen's Club. We used to go to the Airmen's Club and drink all the time. They had like 10 cent wings and dollar for 20 ounce- Bud Light drafts. Oh, wow. Okay. And at the time, that's all I could afford. Yeah. Is this a- So we would- This is a bar on base called- Yeah, yep ... the Airman's Club? Like, is that at every Air Force base or...? Oh, yeah, yeah. The, like, the Airman's an NCO club. Hmm. Or the enlisted club. Yeah, I don't think there's, like, a... Well, I never experienced a Navy equivalent. There used to be a bar on base at nuke school, but it was shut down, I guess, for COVID or whatever, and it didn't really- Oh, okay ... open up until by the time I was leaving there. So, you know, I mean, there's different... I know, like, in Yokosuka, Japan, my buddies mentioned there's a nuke bar just for the nuclear operators. So that's pretty cool. But- Yep ... yeah, I've never b- I've never been to any, like, military exclusive, for lack of better words, or military-themed bars, especially on base. So that, that sounds cool. Yeah. Yeah. But- There's... E- every base I've been to had a Airman's Club or an enlisted club, and a NCO club, and then a officer's club. They all had at least, you know, those. Okay. And so you met her there as a civilian working on base? Yep. And then she had decided that she wanted to join the military, and so she did, and went to tech school. I went down to Biloxi, Mississippi, where she was in tech school and visited. And then she got her first assignment to Germany, and we decided, like, "Yeah, let's get married." And so that, that brought me to Germany, so I was pretty stoked about that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I actually was just in Biloxi on, on my way home from Military Creator Con, so- Oh, nice that was pretty awesome. Yeah, it's... I wanna go back. I liked it there. Is it right next to Ocean Springs? That I, I don't know where Ocean Springs are. I think so. Oh, maybe- It makes sense 'cause it's right on the ocean, so if Ocean Springs, like... I didn't- I, I did- I didn't realize. Yeah, yeah. Ocean Springs was absolutely gorgeous. It was one of the nicest beaches I've been to. It was some of the friendliest people I've ever met in my life. Really? And I'm pretty sure it's, like, right next to, to Biloxi. I... Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It... They're right next to each other. So Biloxi and then you go Ocean Springs. So, it's even the same coastline right there. So yeah- Oh, yeah ... Biloxi and, and Ocean Springs, beaut- one of the most- Honestly, out of all the places that my fiance and I stopped on the way back from Military Critter Con, that area of Biloxi and Ocean Springs was the most beautiful. Granted, we went to a lot of different places, both inland and coastal side and we didn't get to spend too much time at each place. But Ocean Springs had a beautiful little historic shopping center where, you know, all the streets had these historic buildings, and they were all great restaurants, amazing food and, and stores. Oh, yeah. And then the beach was just gorgeous. In fact, I posted a social media reel about the beach we went to had a wooden sculpture. So someone had carved a tree where it turned into all different animals, and it was just absolutely amazing. Whoa. So- Yeah ... yeah, shout out to Biloxi, Mississippi. Or a- as they say, when I was in Mississippi, they said, "We call it Miss-sippi. We don't say the second set of, of letters." Oh, okay. At least the part... When I was on leave with a shipmate outside of Meridian they call it Miss-sippi. At least that's what- Miss-sippi ... his family called it. Yeah. Miss-sippi. So I, I always say that, and I was like, it- it- it's easier to say, so. Yeah. That's true. I like that. Yeah. Yeah, I liked it down there. It was cool. There, there was a funny story. P- One of the things people remembered back, again, this would've been, like, 2000, there was a shark. I don't know what it was made out of, plaster or maybe wood. I don't know. Hmm. It was a giant shark, and it was, like, off the left of that main road that runs along the water. And it's kinda everybody knew that, hey, there's a big, giant shark. I don't know what it was for, if it was a restaurant or a park, whatever. It doesn't matter. It was a giant shark. Years later, after Hurricane Katrina, I met a girl on base in Ramstein in Germany, and she was from Bilo- or she had worked in Biloxi. Hmm. And so I think she used to work at the school on base, so I was enrolling in, in classes. And I was like, "Oh, yeah, I was in Biloxi. I remember the shark." And she was like, "Oh, the shark is gone." I said, "What do you mean?" Like, Hurricane Katrina came and took it out. Well, like, that wasn't the worst of it, that the sh- Katrina devastated Biloxi, so I shouldn't... I, I don't mean to make light of it, but that shark was just gone. And I was like, "Dang, man, I... Like, I remember that shark." She was like, "Yeah, well, it's out to sea now." I was like, "Well-" Real life Sharknado. "So I'm glad to see..." Picked it up and- Yeah, like it... Yeah, like- Yeah ... maybe that was... Yeah. So but Biloxi was a cool... It was cool. Yeah, but definitely different than Germany. You mentioned being over there for a while. Oh, yeah. And then from there, where does your journey continue on to? At, at this point, how long have you been in the service? So I, I hit 30 years old in Germany, and so I'd... That was 12 years, and then I left '08. '02 to '08, so I left at my 14-year mark. I, I made tech sergeant, which is E6, and I'd gotten my college degree- I was pretty stoked. I graduated with a bachelor's degree. I had made tech sergeant. Every- I had lined myself up, but I knew I, before I could retire, I had six years left, and I had to go to Korea, 'cause we have to do a short tour in the milit- in the Air Force, or else... Th- like, you're gonna do a short tour. So I decided to proactively volunteer to go to Korea in order, that way on my way home I might be able to get a cool follow-on assignment. I'd been overseas now for six years. That would've been my seventh year. So I decided to go back to the States. So I went to Osan Air Base, Korea, for a year, and it was by far the hardest year of my life work-wise. Hm. That base is a absolute brutality. It was like a meat grinder. I probably worked three-quarters of the Sundays that I was there, and two-thirds of the Saturdays I was there. We would go weeks and months without a, a true day off, even if you're just going in for a couple hours. It was hard. That was, like, 14-hour shifts. Hm. That was a long year. Now y- but you're remote. You don't bring your family with you. So I think that's why your management or your command and your leadership is like, "Oh, they don't care if they're at work for 14 hours a day," 'cause you don't have a family to go to. But that was a tough year. Right, but I have me and I need to go home. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's- At O- Osan. Oy. I do not recommend it. Note taken. Now, why were you still in? I mean, you talk about y- you've been in for a couple years at this point. Why did you keep staying in? Because it was all you knew? You felt some kind of stability? I- Were you scared of the civilian world? No, I loved it. I, yeah, I absolutely loved it. I mean, I knew from day one, I'm a positive person, and if you only look at the negatives of anything, you will hate everything. Like, you will hate everything. There is nothing out there, no matter how good it is, that doesn't have serious negative. And the Air Force had tons of stupid shit. Tons of it, you know? I mean, Osan, they almost killed me physically. Like, I, I'm shocked I did not have a cardiac issue. But it was still, like, there was some ridiculous moments that were so much fun. There was m- moments that were so... They felt so good. I loved being in the Air Force. I, I did. I, I loved it. I did not want any other life for myself. That was- I think what happened is- They saw your track record with relationships, and they're like, "The last thing he needs is a Korean woman. You gotta keep him on base, 14-hour shifts." C- exactly. Yeah, like, we know this guy's MO. We used to have a joke. I'm sure they had the same form of a joke. It was like the Air Force always, they want you to have a kid in your first enlistment. That way they guarantee a second enlistment. 'Cause the f- the first enlistment, I, I pondered getting out after the first enlistment. That was in Missouri. Again, I'd struggled a little bit. I'd, I'd had my first real taste of, of life failure, and I met a bunch of cool people in Missouri. I thought about going in the Guard- Hmm and I thought, well, maybe this would... But cooler heads prevailed, and I said, "No, I actually really like what I'm doing." And once... If I can get out of trouble, I'd, I'd got myself in some hot water. The military, sometimes it's hard, 'cause once you start drowning, and I know that you understand this, th- they don't... It's not the easiest environment to, to get yourself upright again. For sure. It has a tendency to just keep pounding. And I was proud of myself. I, the, with the help of, of great people around me, but I was able to get off the mat and like, okay, we, we figured everything out. I can't change the, the lumps I've taken, but I can press forward. And I did, and I genuinely loved being in the Air Force. I loved the military. I loved supporting the, the efforts, and I, I loved it. That's really what it came down to. And you've kind of hinted at it a little bit, but can you tell us just a little more whatever you can share with us, a little more of a breakdown of your job details? So you were just like a aircraft mechanic working on the planes, or what exactly was your day-to-day life? Obviously, each station was a little different, but it sounds like- Yeah ... you were kind of just hands-on physical labor each and every day. Yeah, so up until I made tech sergeant, and even then, I, I worked on the flight line, and I was aircraft weapons systems. So I know Navy does it a little different, but- you're a specialty. So on a in a, an aircraft maintenance unit, you got crew chiefs, and they kinda do the whole airplane. Then you have avionics specialists, you have engine specialists, and then of those specialists, there's some that do, like, E&amp;E, electro-environmental. Some do specific, very specific systems. Right. And then, then we have weapons troops. And so my job was maintaining the, the armament system of the aircraft, physically and electronically, so the mechanical aspect of it, the electrical aspect of it. And then loading the bombs and missiles and ammunition on the aircraft itself. So we would load the guns. The F-15 had a 20-millimeter cannon. We would load that. We would put... On F-15Cs, we didn't load bombs. They didn't carry bombs, but it was a air-to-air aircraft. So we loaded AIM-120, AIM-7, AIM-9 missiles. And then we ma- again, maintained the systems, did all the scheduled maintenance. And then in Whiteman, I was off equipment, so that means I was in a back shop. So we would, they would take all the equipment off the aircraft and bring it to our shop, and we would fix it there. So it wasn't quite as exciting, but you learned a lot more. Like, you learned to actually, a lot better how to fix equipment. Right. And we would, we would tear equipment apart and have to rebuild it. It was a nice environment, a little bit more conducive to have, like, a normal schedule. On the flight line, the negative to the flight line environment was you could go in at 4:00 in the morning on Monday, then Tuesday and Wednesday would be s- a 06 roll call, and then Thursday would be 04 roll call, and then Friday would be 9:00 AM roll call. And you're like, "I, I would really like to be able to have a normal sleep schedule." That doesn't happen on a flight line. Also, you could go to work and work for 12 or 16 hours. The only thing that we couldn't do is we couldn't load weapons after our 12-hour mark. But that, that didn't mean we couldn't fix airplanes or do all sorts of dumb stuff. Right. So it, it was... The flight line is a very exciting, it's, it's, it's rapidly changing. It's, it was just an exciting place to be. Like, one of the coolest things in the world was the morning launches. When you get to work and everything is quiet, and you, you have your roll call, you have your coffee, and then you all go out to the flight line together, and you're gonna get ready. And then pilots drive out, and you see pilots coming out to the aircraft. And then a couple minutes later, you hear your first APU start, the auxiliary power unit, and the first engine starts. And it sounds corny, man. I, I, I understand that. But it really was, like, it was a happy place for me. It, you know, the, then the engines start going, jets will start taxiing, and that's all you would hear- For the next, like, four hours, because they would stagger, you know? So you had three different squadrons- Right ... and over the course of four hours, aircraft coming and going, and then maybe you'd get a little bit of lull for lunch, and then you'd be out there, you know, s- you know, doing the turning the aircraft, doing your quick inspections, maybe putting up some chaff and flare, launching them again. It was, it was a cool environment. I liked it. Then the, Germany I was e- equipment maintenance as well. And then when I went to Korea, I was an expediter, which is the worst job- Mm ... in the military. It's the thankless job, 'cause now you're driving a truck. You're the one who dictates maintenance on the flight line. So you gotta- So everyone hates you. Everyone hates you, 'cause for, your production superintendent is mad at you because you're not getting enough work done, and you're not getting it done fast enough. Your airmen hates you because you're making them do too much work too fast. Your other expediters hate you, because I think it's just a natural default setting. And it's like, I, I am the most hated person on this base, you know? It's like, the e- expediter. There's, there's no love for the expediter. You can never get enough work done to keep supervision happy. You can never have an easy enough day to keep your airmen happy, and you're just stuck in the middle. And you're driving, you're not even, like, you're driving around a bread van up and down the flight line barking orders at people. So it's terribly unhealthy. I was drinking probably 60 ounces... Actually, I'd switched over to Monster energy drink. I was, so I'd start my day with like- Oh, man ... a 20-ounce coffee, and then pour that chemical crap for the rest of the after... It was, it was awful. And it was high-stress. I remember getting yelled at, like screamed at the top of my lungs. And I'm a 30-year-old, I'm a, I'm a grown-ass man, and I'm getting yelled at, like almost on a weekly basis, daily basis. Like, yeah, okay, man. Yeah. Whatever. One of the interesting parts of the military, for sure. And, and even, like, the, it's interesting, 'cause you have some commands where there's someone, like, half your age screaming at you because they have more job experience, and it's, it's some weird situations sometimes. And it w- it was always weird to me being in boot camp. Like yeah, for all the 18 and 19-year-olds, we were still just basically high schoolers, but there were some grown men in, in boot camp who- Yeah ... were just acting like they were still in high school and, and getting yelled at, and it was just so strange to see that. But for sure. And so Korea was kind of like your, you know, your worst moment, but- Yep ... that's getting closer toward the end of your, your service now. So where did you go after Korea? So then I went to a little base that hardly anyone even knows about, Creech Air Force Base. It's about 40 miles northwest of Las Vegas. It, it's well known now. It's the home of the, the RPA, the MQ-1 Predator and the MQ-9 Reaper. I'm not gonna say the D word, drone, 'cause they're not drones. They're remotely piloted aircraft. It- the reason I say it's not well known, it used to be called Indian Springs Airfield, and it wasn't until they s- they put the Re- Mm the, the Reaper and Predator there that they renamed it Creech, and they turned it back into a, an active base again. Again, 40 miles northwest of Las Vegas. There's a reason they put it out in the middle of the desert. That was, again, the remotely piloted aircraft. It was a very exciting base. If not, we weren't overly busy. We didn't have the, the pace that some other bases did. But it was such a unique mission. I mean, it was cutting-edge technology. We had a, we supported a deployed location 365 days a year. So we always had men and women in, in combat zones. Our air crew that was on Creech s- were flying active missions. So if you're at all familiar with the RPA, you know that they can be, they have to be, takeoff and landing has to be done on location. So if we have a aircraft, let's say Afghanistan, there has to be a ground control station and a air crew that could take off and land in Afghanistan with them. However, once they're airborne, they can hand off that control of that aircraft to anyone in the world. Mm. And so we had air crews in Vegas who were flying combat missions in Afghanistan from Nevada. The reason that they can't take off and land is there's a eight-second delay from the satellite communications. So obviously, a eight-second delay for a combat mission for, or ISR intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, that's fine. You don't wanna land or take off with a eight-second delay. So you get there, and you're seeing these new aircraft, like literally brand-new aircraft. It's such a cool mission. You're, like, experiencing remotely piloted aircraft for the first times ever, knowing that you're supporting a combat unit that's downrange that eventually I rotated to and got to experience that myself as well. It was ... And it, you're in a beautiful Las Vegas- I say beautiful. It's like the desert, it's different, and if you haven't experienced it, it's really pretty. After four years it got a little old, but the first couple days, or first couple years- Right ... it was like, like what a cool experience. Like I'm ... Again, we used to have roll call. We would open the giant hangar doors, right? The, the hangar's as big as a football field. We would open up the doors so it was almost like you're being outside, and you could look up at the mountains on a clear blue sky, and we would have our roll call overlooking mountains with the blue sky and the sun shining, and there'd be people complaining. Like look, if you're not gonna work overly hard today, we're teaching you how to fix aircraft, the, the ... some of the most cutting edge technology in, in application today, and you're starting your day off by looking at the clear blue sky on a sunny day looking at mountains. If you're still miserable, like I can't help you. Right. I, I don't know what to tell you. Right. Yeah, that- And that was where I, I got my first taste of leadership. I made, eh, I made senior NCO, I made master sergeant E7, and where I started to get my first taste, like true taste, of management and leadership. Right, and that's a whole conversation on its own, 'cause leadership in the military is very, very There's a lot of facets to it that you don't have in the civilian world, both good and bad, a lot of situations, and we can definitely get into that conversation. I wanna finish up your service journey. So we're near the end of your service here, Yeah ... if I'm tracking the timeline correctly. So was the next change of station your last one? It was. I guess technically not, but... So I got, I had to go ba- I didn't like Las Vegas. I, I just didn't like the vibe. It was cool. I did four years there. It was a great experience. I wanted to make E8, and I had a legitimate shot of making E8, but there was a couple things I had to do, and I needed to go back overseas, so I volunteered for Korea. Again, I learned my lesson. I'm not going to Osan. I volunteered for the other air base in Korea- Oh, okay ... it's called Kunsan, and this was a more remote place, and it, I got a superintendent duty title, which was amazing. That, like that's kinda what you need to make E8. So the stars were lined up for me to get promoted. All I had to do was show up, work really hard for a year, and, and things, good things would come. And I found out, again, what's the old saying? If you wanna make God laugh, tell him your plan. Right. So I got there, and one of my best friends there, a, a amazing human being named Eric he was helping me out, and he, he had made E8. He made senior master sergeant, and he was gonna mentor me to make m- m- Senior master sergeant as well. We were like pals. We- it's a lot of, there was a lot of hard work there. It wasn't all, you know, sunshine and, and rainbows. And a couple months into my tour, unfortunately Eric passed away. Mm. And it was kinda one of those, like, we just got a call one day that we f- we found Eric deceased in his dorm room. I said, "Shit." Like I ha- I hadn't heard from him for two days, but that wasn't uncommon. We lived right down the hall from each other. And I had one of my troops come down with, like, this one in five million affliction, was in the hospital for months. I had another one of my troops get accused of assault, and he was, you know, one of my go-to people. I ran into a chief that really just did not like me on a, I feel on a personal level, like we just did not jive, and that was the person I directly reported to. And I said, "Man, this dream year is, is really, it's, it's harder than I had hoped it would be." And I just kept telling myself, "Listen, if you wanna make se- if you wanna be a good senior master sergeant, there's only one way to do it, and that's to go through the fire. Like, you got this. You can do this. Nothing here that you've experienced is better than you." We just had to work through it with a team. N- nobody's acting on their own. And unfortunately f- 11 months into my 12-month tour, I got diagnosed with stage II colon cancer, stage IIB colon cancer, at a Korean hospital. So I think they told me right... I was gonna leave in November anyway, and it was, like, the first week of November I had to go to a Korean hospital. I wasn't feeling well, and I got diagnosed with cancer. And I just remember thinking, like, "Well, that, that's about the right way to end this year," you know? Right. That, that's the cherry on top of, of a, a year. And so to wrap up my career, I was single. They told me my initial diagnosis was not good. Like, it was kind of one of the old, like, you need to get your affairs in order, and you're gonna need a caregiver. I said, "Well, I'm single. I, I'm not married. I don't have a caregiver." They said, "Well, we're gonna send you to your home of record." I didn't even know that they could do this. So they sent me back to my home of record so that my family could take care of me. I ended up being assigned to Hanscom Air Force Base in Massachusetts, and they got me a doctor at Yale, which was like a dream, you know? They asked me, "Well, is there any hospital in Connecticut you would prefer to go to?" I said, "Well, yeah. Send me to Yale." They said, "Okay." So I, I was living at home. I, I moved in with my sister, who had an apartment with her kids. I moved in with her- I was technically assigned to Hanscom in the patient squadron, but I didn't have to report to Hanscom. And then I would just, I literally sat home on medical leave. I'd go to, you know, this, I had to go to the doctor and do my chemo treatments. I had some, I had a couple surgeries, so you're recovering from those. And that was it. Like, the, the patient advocate would check in on me once a week, make sure everything was good, and I was just kind of sitting. But effectively, my career was over. I knew that my senior master sergeant was out the window. That wasn't gonna happen. I, I mean, quite honestly, the first few months I was home, I didn't know that I would live you know, more than a year or two. So th- losing senior was minimal at that point. I, my assignment to Germany was gone, and I actually, thanks to the doctors at Yale, they patched me up. I had three surgeries. I ended up with a ostomy bag for a while, then that got removed. I was able to reverse that. The cancer was, it's gone, and they returned me to active duty, which I was shocked. I thought that that would be it. But at that point, again, I'd put on a bunch of weight. I had neuropathy in my feet. I was never probably gonna pass a PT test, or at least not in six months. I was not gonna get promoted. I wasn't gonna go to a good base. And I'd started dating an amazing woman named Lindsay. And you know, I was enjoying being around my family again for the first time in 20 years. So I decided at that point, just let me retire, and let's be done with this. And l- let's turn the page. So I guess my last base was technically Hanscom in Massachusetts. Mm. Although I don't, I was only there a couple weeks. Right. And that was it, man. That was, we had a retirement ceremony in the VFW, and that was it. Air Force career, put a, put a pin in it. It's over. Right. One of the things that I find so crazy is years, or rather I can say the word s- decades of aircraft maintenance and mechanics and all these roles and leadership and college education to podcast. And, and I'm not, I'm not looking- Yeah ... look down on you. I'm a podcaster as well who has a nuclear, you know, operation background. So I ju- I just think it's so interesting. I mean, what, what was the switch? It was kind of really just because of medical, that when you went civilian you're like, "Hey, I'm not gonna go build airplanes for a civilian airline." Or what was kind of like the process when you got out? Because you've mentioned some of the things that were obviously hindering you. Well, I, I, again, I'd gone to school And I, I got lucky. My cousin, years ago, years ago, said, "Hey, when you get out of the Air Force..." He worked at Sikorsky, and that's big in Connecticut. Pratt &amp; Whitney is big in Connecticut. So my cousin said, "When you get out of the Air Force, you let me know. I'll help you get a job at Pratt &amp; Whitney or Sikorsky." And I'd gone to school, and I, I called him up. I said, "Hey, man, I'm getting out, and I'd- I could use your help." Said, "No problem." So he helps get me an interview, and I was lucky enough to get hired at Pratt &amp; Whitney. It was... And again, I- it was the job I'd kinda lined myself up for. I'd- I went to school for professional aeronautics. I had done everything I needed to do to get a job at a place like Pratt &amp; Whitney. I got a supply chain job, and I- on the F-35 program, or the F135 engine program that goes in the F-35 fighter. So it was a, a kind of a perfect timing, 'cause they were expanding the program rapidly to meet the demand. The timing couldn't have been better, and I always use the phrase, like, I, I walked through... You know, I fell in shit and come up smelling like roses. That's the way it was. And I had a job, but I, I'll, I'm not even gonna lie to you. The day I walked in, I went home, and I was talking to my family. I'm still living with my sister. And, "How'd it go?" "I, I hate it. I hate it. I'm not going back tomorrow." And, and my mother was there. She was like, "Well, obviously you gotta go back." And she was so cute. She was like, "Well, you gotta do at least a week." And I said, "Ma, no, I, I'm going back." And you gotta do at least a year. That's what they tell you professionally, right? I said, "I'm going back, but I, I just... It's not, it's not the same. I just don't like it. I'm in a cubicle. Everything is colored taupe. I, I don't like it." Right. Compared to being- So I did that- on the line back in- Yeah ... the military, I mean, you were in a diff- very different environment. Totally different. I did that for 10 years, and I told my wife a couple times. Now, the next 10 years could be their own episode, 'cause I had a lot of ups and downs, and I, a, a lot of significant mental health issues cropped up. Being a cancer survivor and a cancer patient are two different things. But I knew professionally that it was not what I wanted to do. But financially, it was very lucrative. And, and I'm... I mean it when I say I didn't think I was gonna live for, you know, till retirement. So I gotta make some money and take care of my family, and I... There's gotta be some nest egg there for my daughter. If she's not gonna get to grow up with me, then there's gotta be something there. So let's make some money. It's a very safe environment And we'll be good. But it just, I just didn't love it. And I did a couple different jobs at Pratt. I met amazing people. Smart, smart, smart people. They took great care of me. And I had a cancer recurrence, which was another whole thing. But I finally, we, we ... My wife and I, my mother passed away. My wife retired from teaching, 'cause I subsequently married a wonderful woman I had started dating. And her, my father-in-law was our last remaining parent. He was down in Florida. And I said, "Look, I c- I'm working remote at Pratt, and now you're retiring from teaching," 'cause she just didn't wanna teach anymore. "Let's go live in Florida with your dad. Let's go enjoy him while he's alive and well and happy and healthy. Let's go live in Florida." And so we did. So in 2024, August of 2024, we moved to Florida. Again, I was still remote at Pratt. But I told my wife, "Give me, like, a year, and then I'm gonna leave Pratt. I gotta do something, babe. I don't know what." I ... And that's the scary part. I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I know that I'm not in the right spot. Like, I, I can, I feel it. Something's wrong, and I, I But I don't know what. Well, you try and convince your wife that you just wanna leave and you don't know where you're going, that's a tough sell. But at some point, my wife finally was like, "Look, you're not happy. And Pratt is what you wanted, but it, it's what you thought you wanted, and it's not what you really want." So we got to Florida, we got settled in, and I told her, "Come December, I'm gonna resign." And she said, "Okay. Well, make me a promise. You're either gonna write that book that you said you're gonna write, or didn't you talk about wanting to do a podcast?" And I was like, "Yeah, I actually did." She's like, "Start your podcast or write your book, and then I'm cool with you resigning. But that's it. Like, you're not gonna stay home and be a, a, you know, loser." Okay. So that was ... Now, I made, I said come December, right? This is in October. I had a conversation on Halloween with an old friend of mine who used to have a top 50 podcast called Beers and Brass Tacks. I worked with this guy. And I called him, I said, "Hey, man. Can you teach me, like, give me a half-hour instruction on how to do a podcast?" I mean, I didn't know anything. I'm not even being glib. I, all I had done was listen to podcasts. And so he, we talked for about a hour, and I know it was Halloween, 'cause he said, "Hey, man, I gotta take my kids out trick-or-treating. But if you need anything else, you call me." Yeah. The very next day, my wife said, "I got tickets to the Brew Fest in Stuart, Florida." I said, "I don't even drink beer." Part of, like, after having a colon resection, I don't, I can't drink carbonated, like- Mm ... beer. It, it hurts my stomach. So I don't really even drink beer. Said, "Well, we gotta go meet some people. It's a beautiful Sunday, or Saturday, let's go out." I go to, we walk into Beerfest. The very first tent I came to was the We Do Good tent, and they had a group in there that was promoting Military Creator Con. The first person I spoke to at this event was Adam Peters, and the second person I talked to... Actually, I take that back. The first person I talked to was Mar-a-Lago. The second person I talked to was Adam Peters, and the third person in the tent was James, James Van Praagh. And a- they were like, "So what are you here?" Well, I, I said, "What's Military Creator Con?" I said, "I'm, I'm actually toying with the idea of starting a podcast." And James was like, "Well, I can help you." And, like, it was one of those, I don't know, man, you call it divine intervention- Right ... call it whatever you want, but- If your wife hadn't convinced you to go, you know. And what are the chances? It's the, the whole Military Creator Con team there, so. Yeah. Like, the first person I talked to at a beer festival in Stuart is the Military Creator Con people. What's a podcast? Yeah. Yeah. And James, who's, like ... Like, I can't even say enough. I don't wanna ... If I say what I really think about James, it's gonna sound like I'm making it up. That dude and Mara, they're awesome, awesome, awesome human beings. Like, that dude was a coach, like from ground zero. I was like, "Bro, I don't wanna waste your time. I don't know jack about podcasting." And he said, "That's why I'm here. I will tell you, I will teach you. I will give you e- everything I know. You know? Just do y-..." He gave s- gave me the, "If you do the homework, I'll grade it and give you new assignments. If you do the work, I'll help you out." The, I mean, that's, in this world, that's all you can ask for, right? That's ... Okay. So every week we'd get together, or every couple weeks, and, "Ha, what have you done?" Well, here's what I did. I don't even wanna show you. It's stupid. It's, it's terrible. It's the worst. Well, and that's when I learned, like, we all ... That's how everybody starts. Everybody's first video and audio sucks. Nobody knows what they're doing. And y- but you do it a- you make a second one, and you make a third one, and, you know, that was it. So yeah, that, that was how that worked. And then, a- and so Lindsay looked up at me and was like, "You see?" And there's one ... It, there's no, there's ... My wife is a amazing human. But there was no, like She just looked at me like, "I, I told you that we should be here. I told you." You're right, babe. You're right. You're almost always right. And that was November 1st. I went to Orlando's PodFest, and met Shay Sparks and Adam Bird and a bunch of other just- Didn't see me there ... awesome- I was there with a cowboy hat, but, I, really didn't- I did not. No I wasn't attending the event, but I went there to meet some contacts I knew, so I was- Oh ... like prowling around the front door for lack of better words. There's a better word- Yeah ... than prowling. I was walking. Yeah. You know, and, Yeah. Yeah, the, so that, that's funny is that, that we were there but didn't meet- Yeah but then a few months later we met at Military Creator Con, so. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the, the last couple months since then has just been one after another of those experiences. Like, this is amazing. And, and so that's where we're at with the podcast. We're, we're trying, but- Yeah ... it keeps morphing 'cause I keep meeting these people and like, "That's a great... I wanna do that. I wanna do this. I wanna do..." You know? So that's why- Yeah ... we're here. Well- Yeah ... you can always add on after you start, and then one thing I wanna say is, are you allowed to disclose the name yet? I mean, I, I got a, a, a peek at the name, but I don't know if you wanna share that just yet, if you're still tweaking that. So we initially, I, I'll give you the quick version. We, the name was absolutely beautiful. It was gonna be Spirits of America, and we're gonna go to, I wanna do every 50 state, and it wasn't gonna be whiskey specific or bourbon. Wanna, like, r- Florida, I live in Florida. We gotta do rum, right? We gotta do, there's a couple special things in Florida besides rum that- Oh, yeah people make here. And so that's what we wanted, to go to all 50 states and talk to people and learn about the spirits that they make and why they make 'em, and learn where the recipes come from. I don't care about the recipe. I care about the people behind it. Spirits of America was perfect. It was so perfect, in fact, that somebody else had used it. Not for what we're trying to use it for, but that name was closely taken. And so, the lawyer advised us, "We can push forward with it. It may, you may have Spirits of America podcast for years and never hear boo from them, or it might be an issue right away." So my partner and I decided, let's change it. Let's just start with something fresh, something totally new. Mm. The problem is, it, we just, it's been harder to come up with a, another name. So- Right ... I, we have a, we have a working title that I've been using with my projects, because I saw, you know what? I'm not gonna get tracked down with the name. Let's start building content. Let's go out and do some interviews. Let's practice, work on our equipment. I gotta learn how to use my camera, you know, better. And the name will come. But now, like, we've already did our first interview. We went to Kansas City and went to West Bottoms Whiskey. And I couldn't even tell us the name of the podcast because we're just nothing, nothing fit as well as Spirits of America. But so, yeah. I totally get that. You know, I've been working with a couple different people trying to launch their podcast and, you know, each day it is more difficult to launch a new podcast in terms of name because so many people are making podcasts. And the, and the saddest part is you'll have a great idea for a podcast name, someone's already, already using it, but they pod faded. They stopped after like three episodes- Yeah ... and they dropped off years ago. And so it, it's, it's sad. You know, luck- I got lucky with Couple of Nukes. No one was doing anything like that. So, if you type up my podcast name, all my stuff pops up, then a bunch of news articles- Yeah ... about Iran right now unfortunately. But- Yeah, yeah. Well ... you know, so there's a- Yeah. Yeah. But besides that, you know, on the first like three pages of Google now, and, and that's just come with consistency. I mean, I hit 300, over 300 episodes now. About to start season 10. Wow. That's awesome. Or actually, I already started season 10. This episode will be part of season 10. And then you know, but it's been three years and some change, so you know. It, it, it really depends, but like you said, the content's more important than the name. You can always come back- Yeah and add that on. Definitely is interesting and funny to call a place, "We'd love to have you on the podcast." "Oh, what's the podcast?" "Well, it's not named yet, but we're, we're making it." You know? Yeah, yeah. That's a conversation on its own, but yeah, definitely I'll be promoting it on my platforms and everything, and maybe we'll have you back on or something. But were you gonna say you have a social media page already for it? Yeah, I created, like I have a website, I have Instagram, I have Facebook, and all of it under The Spirits of America. Because I want, I wanted to get ahead of it and make sure I locked it down, and then we found out later. So now first rule of entrepreneurialship, talk to a lawyer first before you... Now Instagram, Facebook, and the website, yeah, I spent 14 bucks. Okay, that's fine. I can come up with a new website. But, 'cause we didn't even build the website yet 'cause it was right after. I just wanted to lock the name down. Instagram and Facebook I could change. But yeah, it's like we need to decide and go with it, and then worry about content. But you, you can get lost in the details of is it SEO friendly, is it this, is it that? Let's focus on making real content and get that out there. But at some point, like, we need a name, 'cause I, yeah, you- I can't have too many conversations, "What's your podcast name?" We don't have a name yet. It was funny the first time. We were able to segue into a joke on the podcast, but, like, I, I'm gonna have to come up with a real name. 'Cause I, and I love, I, I really appreciate the, your willingness to, to help us spread the word. Oh, yeah. For sure ... but I need- Well, I plan on being a, a part of it. I wanna go hit up some distilleries with you and some breweries. There's, there's a lot. I mean, you mentioned Florida. I mean, I know a bunch of places in Jacksonville that have their own custom blend that only they make there and stuff. So I mean, y- y- you could never run out of content, really. There's always someone. And even if- Yeah ... you run out of all the professional businesses, I know so many people with their backyard distilleries that y- you might r- you might wanna interview them anonymously, but Yeah, right? I know. Yeah. It, it's such a I, I love, I love where art meets science and then splash history. Like, that, when I went to school to learn how to brew beer, and that's what I kinda fell in love with, was the a- the art of beer, the cool bottle designs, the can labels, the graphics, the marketing. It's so clever and inventive. But the science behind the beer has to be sound. The same way with bourbons and whiskeys and spirits. Like, you can kill people with a, a improperly distilled spirit, so in addition to just producing something that tastes like crap. So your science has to be sound. As a nuke guy, you understand. It's, the science has to be sound. But then you splash in the art and the creativity, and then the history, 'cause I'm a history nerd, it's like, it's too much. It's too much to pass up. It's too good to pass up, and I can't wait. I, I look forward to having more conversations with you. I, like, I'm so proud of what you're doing, and happy. Thank you. I feel it's, it's so critical. My first idea for a podcast, I wanted to start, I wanted to be the anti-manosphere. I didn't even know that word existed. But I, I watched, in my, my emotional and mental struggles, I started going on the YouTube vortex and, and, you know, following, like, Jordan Petersons and, and some of the, and Tony Robbins and some good content. And then I f- I stumbled upon some terrible, like, crap that, that they're teaching young men. Mm. And young people, but as a man, I like, oh my God, I can't Imagine being 16-year-old version of me and coming upon Andrew Tate or something, and I, like, this is awful. And I thought- Yeah ... well, I'm, I'm gonna make a podcast. I'm gonna be the anti-Andrew Tate podcast. I, I don't know if anyone if ... I don't care if a million people listen to me. If one person can hear me, right? And I, it sounds cliche, but ... And that's what, you know, Lindsay's- No, but that's what it's about Yeah. And so- That's what I always talk about Yeah. And when I- It's not the numbers, it's getting the episode to the right person at the right time. You know, having that impact. 100%. And, you know, I, I have a ton of connections for you for different podcasts about masculinity. You know, it's something I speak on a lot. Yeah ... toxic masculinity, biblical masculinity overly effeminate masculinity. So it's definitely a conversation that you and I can have on my podcast in a different episode. Yeah. And I know a bunch of shows that I've already been on or interviewed the host that would love to have that- Yeah conversation with you as well. And it is very important because, you know, masculinity isn't being taught primarily just in the home now. Like you said, there is an inundation of influences from mainstream media, social media, and then just real life social groups putting out all these different messages, a lot of them in alignment with the same thing, which is the wrong thing. And I- Yeah ... literally had met two people this week where one of them, when they were 11 years old, their father introduced them to pornography as a father-son bonding activity. And a different gentleman- Oh ... at 16, his father bought him a prostitute for his birthday. So we c- you and I have plenty to talk about when it comes to- Yeah fathering, when it comes to masculinity military perspective, civilian perspective from the perspective of children of abusive homes. We, we could have a whole episode on that so- Yeah ... this isn't your, this isn't your ... It is your first, but it's not your last- Yeah ... episode on, on this show for sure. Oh, thank you. I'm glad to, I'm glad to hear. I, 'cause I've, I feel like I talked a lot about myself. I guess that was the, the point today, but yeah, there's so much more. When ... A- again, you were introduced to me as Mr. Whiskey, and oh, that makes sense, and we talked about the bourbon clubs. But then when you actually said what your podcast was about, again, it was one of those, like, of all the people that you could meet, that this is one of the people, and this is what your podcast is about? Like, literally trying to help people and navigate this? It's like, you, you can, you can try and dismiss that as a coincidence, but I don't know, man. I felt like there's, there's something, there's something deeper. There's a movement here. The tides are swelling and, and I just gotta go with it and, and press on. I could not have foreseen this. This, again, I, when I say I didn't know what I was gonna do but I knew I had to do something, I'm being genuine. I knew that I wasn't in the right spot, and I, I, I saw a destination that I wanted, but let's go there. And then, again, meeting people like you with the mission that you're on, I don't know. It's ... No, I think you're gonna find- It's a- ... there's much more to the podcasting world than you imagine, as you have already- begun to discover, and I'm super excited to see some of the connections you make and your journey. I wanna thank you for your time today for, this is one of your first steps, you know, guesting on a podcast and, you know, you'll really learn how to tell and what to tell as you go along. You know, I look back at my first episodes that I guested on compared to the latest ones and I'm like, "Who was that guy?" You know? Yeah. Yeah. You really become such an expert in, in your craft, and I'm excited to see the launch of your podcast. So, you know, I'll be keeping everyone on my end updated, and I know you'll be updating everyone on your end. So we'll be talking again real soon, but for today, you know, we'll wrap up this episode. Thank you for sharing your overview. You know, parts, a lot of parts of your story are very relatable to people. They're experiences that many are going through maybe in a similar but different capacity, and you've talked a little bit about what it kinda took to get through those and some of the realizations that you've had. So thank you for your insight, and I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much for having me. It's a absolute pleasure. I'm so happy to have met you. Thank you for having me. I, I hope to... Again, it's my first time being a, a guest, so hopefully I'm wasn't too embarrassing. Thank you so much.</p>